God created everything except that man created the artificial construct we know as "time." And as though that weren't enough, government stepped in and created Daylight Savings Time. If it were up to government, they would meddle with all of God's creation and screw up everything. Hmm--come to think of it......--said by me after the time changed.
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| The Clocktower, West Parade, Bexhill, Sussex . (Photo credit: Wikipedia) |
There are many variants concerning what time is and how it is comprised, but generally speaking I think most of us commonly think of time as being linear; that is a series of events or points in a line that presumably have a starting point somewhere in the past, continuing to where we are in the present, and heading to some point in a future. Then there is nonlinear time which is the impression of time cumulatively as viewed from a far vantage point.
Scientist/theologian Chuck Missler provides what I think is an excellent analogy of the two ways of viewing time. He says to think of a parade. If you are sitting curbside watching the parade pass by then that would be like experiencing linear time. The past is represented by the part of the parade that has already passed by your vantage point, while the present is that fleeting part of the parade that is immediately in front of you soon to enter into the past. The future is that part of the parade that is still to come.
To view the parade from the nonlinear aspect, you might think of yourself hovering high above in a helicopter from which vantage point you are able to see the entirety of the parade from the staging area, then winding through the streets below, and finally dispersing at the end of the parade route. Missler reasons that this nonlinear view is how God would view the time line while we humans are limited to merely experiencing the passage of linear time.
The linear view has immediacy and greater subjective meaning to a viewer while the nonlinear view is more impressionistic where the spectator has no direct connection to singular parade parts, but instead a feel for the entire parade all at the same time.
My Battle of the Bands offering this time around represents to me two distinct ways of assessing time: linear and nonlinear. See if you agree and more importantly, let us know which song you like best...
Battle of the Bands
Battle of the Bands is the blogging event started by Far Away Series and now hosted by StMcC Presents Battle of the Bands. This event happens twice each month on the 1st and 15th. The premise is simple: Listen to the songs presented below and then in the comments vote for your favorite and tell us why you liked it. Then visit the links listed near the bottom of this post for more Battle action.
This Time Battle
This Battle came upon me just a couple weeks ago as my wife and I were eating lunch at the Sizzler Steak Restaurant near our house. As we dined, the background music being piped in seemed to be primarily deep tracks from the seventies so that made for a pleasant dining experience for me since that is a musical era that I particularly enjoy. My attention perked when I heard a familiar old Fleetwood Mac song begin playing and it was not long before a Battle was born, pushing all of my other Battle songs in my line-up to some indefinable future time. Not only did hearing this song change my schedule for Battle of the Bands, it influenced the topic of my current series--"It's About Time".
Funny how things like that can happen when you're just sitting one afternoon eating a steak dinner while a life soundtrack provided courtesy of the dining establishment plays in the background. And to think my wife and I went there on a last minute whim. We hadn't been to that restaurant in many months. And that song was just waiting there to happen to me at that one particular moment in time...
Fleetwood Mac "Sands of Time" (1971)
"Sands of Time" is one of my favorite Fleetwood Mac songs from the 1971 album Future Games, which I would call my favorite album by the group and consider perhaps their best. Though the later addition of the team of Buckingham/Nicks certainly added a greater commercial appeal to the group, I tend to prefer the songs that came from the teaming of Danny Kirwan, Bob Welch, and Christine McVie. Kirwan lasted about five tumultuous years with Fleetwood Mac until his mental disorders forced his removal from the group--another one of those sad troubled rock and roll genius stories.
The Kirwan penned "Sands of Time" is a wonderful piece of music with somewhat confusing disjointed lyrics that might be a reflection of his mental state of the time. There is no precise focus to the song which to me might represent a more non-linear way to view time. The message depicts a dichotomy between dark and light, apprehension and hope. The final destination is "the sea" without any precise indication of what will be waiting there, but there seems to be an expectation that something good might happen when that sea destination is reached. The music wafts and rolls fading smoothly in and out, almost with a jazzy feel...
Alan Parsons Project "Time" (1980)
Alan Parsons Project was certainly more of a project than any actual band. Consisting of the core members Alan Parsons and Eric Woolfson and a parade of guest musicians and regular sidemen, the group cycled through a number of concept albums starting in 1976. Sometimes mistaken for a song by Pink Floyd, the beautiful "Time" sounds like it could have been pulled off of Dark Side of the Moon. This song is about as laid back as music can get. Truly wonderful stuff.
Though I can easily say that "Eye in the Sky" is my favorite song by The Project, "Time" is right up there among my favorite songs by the group. Dreamy and relaxing, "Time" expresses a more linear view of time with the narrator suggesting a sense of resignation as he drifts from the present to eventual death. As in the Mac song, the ultimate destination is the sea. In the Parsons song the "sea" of "Time" is an ambiguous eternity...
Time To Vote!
I hope you have time to vote! And hopefully you have an opinion of some kind. Which version do you like the best? To me it's a somewhat tough choice, but how do you feel about it?
Please vote on your favorite by letting us know your choice in the comment section and tell us why you prefer the version you chose. Then after you've finished here, please visit the other blogs listed below who may or may not be participating this time around. And if you've put up your own BOTB contest let us know that as well so we can vote on yours.
Here are some other places where you might find BOTB posts:
StMcC Presents Battle of the Bands
‘YOUR DAILY DOSE’
'MIKE'S RAMBLINGS'
'Curious as a Cathy'
Sound of One Hand Typing
The Doglady's Den
Angel's Bark
Cherdo on the Flipside
Jingle, Jangle, Jungle
Winner Announced on Wednesday March 22nd
On Monday March 20th I'll be revealing my theme for the Blogging from A to Z April Challenge---yes, it's that time already. Funny how time slips away. Then on Wednesday I'll be back with the results of this current Battle. Who will win? Hope you help decide with your vote.
Do you consider time to be a dimension? What is your favorite combination of artists who comprised Fleetwood Mac? Thinking of concept albums such as those recorded by Alan Parsons Project, do you have a favorite?
The Fleetwood Mac song is over seven minutes - it's slipping into prog-rock territory.
ReplyDeleteAnd it would be my pick.
Alex, Not quite prog, but it is slipping in that direction.
DeleteFirst vote goes to Fleetwood Mac
Lee
Lee, It's just too early in the morning for me to read blog posts because when I thought both songs had the same title and while I listened to them I thought, "These don't sound alike. What's wrong here!" That's when I figured out they are two different tunes. lol I love Fleetwood Mac and oddly I do not recall "Sands of Time". I don't know all the members in F.M. except for Stevie Nicks and I prefer her singing lead in the group. I all but forgot about Alan Parson's Project and this wonderful song from the 80s, "Time", which I really like a lot. In fact, I like it better than the first. So, I'm definitely giving my vote to APP with "Time". I never thought about time seeming dimensional but it is when you think of as past, present, and future. I'm definitely linear time thinking person because I can't see time all at once. I usually think of one block time. Past. Present. Future. Now, I'm gonna ponder on this time question all day. :) As for bands like APP, which until recent years did I learn that multi-talented performers came together under one name. I really didn't pay attention to this sort of thing growing up but anywho, the first group that comes to mind is ELO. I loved 80s stuff! Good battle and interesting questions to pick the ole brain, my friend. Have a good day!
ReplyDeleteCathy, time is something that can lead to some deep thinking. We mostly confront time in a linear fashion unless we are dealing with memory and then we can take in a broader span though we still tend to remember events more than impressionistic expanses.
DeleteBalancing the race it's a vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Lee,
DeleteThe topic of time is a deep subject to ponder. Who knows maybe this will give you some ideas for future posts! :)
Cathy, you are looking into my future :)
DeleteLee
Hands down Alan Parsons. I love love love that song. It makes me get a little weepy too.
ReplyDeleteJoJo, the AP song is a bit melancholy as much as it is dreamy. In the right frame of mind I can see getting "weepy" listening to it.
DeleteAnother vote for Alan Parsons
Lee
Alan Parsons, definitely. I don't have anything by APP, but I've always love their sound. He engineered "Dark Side of the Moon," and I've always believed it really showed with his sound.
ReplyDeleteA lot of his stuff sounds resembles Floyd's "Breathe".
Hey! "Dark Side of the Moon" had a song about time, didn't it?
Harry, yes, there is a song called "Time" on Dark Side... and maybe that's where Parson's got his inspiration while I guess his musical taste probably showed itself on the Floyd album.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Time is a great topic.You pulled me into reading your post with an interesting subject but since I'm not a Fleetwood Mac fan....Linear or non? Wow. Sizzler? Seriously? Lol I'd rather have PB&J.
ReplyDeleteEve, Every meal has it's time (to keep in thematic context). Sizzler is never my first choice, but my wife likes it and I'm usually content with my meal when I go there. And it's within easy walking distance from our house--though my wife will never walk there so we always drive.
DeleteLee
Fleetwood Mac gets my vote as it hit the right note.
ReplyDeleteThen you have the thinking that time is nothing but a human construct. That throws a whole bunch of other wrenches into the mix. Time sure is a fickle thing.
Pat, yes, if we didn't think about it or never had to schedule anything we'd probably think little about time other than watching the sun rise and set and the seasons pass. If we didn't measure time then maybe we'd live longer.
DeleteA vote for Fleetwood Mac
Lee
Oh and definitely "Time" by Alan Parsons
ReplyDeleteEve, got it!
DeleteAnother vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Wow....Eye In The Sky over I Robot or Pyramid?
ReplyDeleteThis is a tough battle, as I have loved the APP ballad for some decades, and have virtually forgotten the Future Games album.
Musically, right now, the FM songs fits my mood (upbeat, and since I am taking a break from a boring endeavor in my home office, I need upbeat).
However, as much as the APP songs is not right for me right now, I have always loved it-as you note, it is very much a nod to Pink Floyd-Parson's work on DSoTM is what put him on the musical map-a beautiful lyric with a suprising vocal performance by the late Eric Woolfson...add all that up and it's enough to make me say....
....WAIT FOR IT!!!!.....
A vote for Alan Parson Project
LC
Larry, "Eye in the Sky" marks such a definitive time in my life that I not only like the song, but it taps into so many memories. So, yes, a favorite for many reasons.
Delete"Time" definitely is a lovely piece of music so I understood your reasoning in voting for it...
A vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
"And so it was when I was at Sizzler that I was pondering the linear nature of time as a human construct."
ReplyDeleteOh, Lee. Only you.
(I say that fondly)
I've always liked the Alan Parsons Project sound. Fleetwood Mac's isn't bad, but give my vote to APP.
Beer, yeah, that's me sometimes to my wife's chagrin. But what the hey, she got her shrimp skewers at Sizzler and I got my idea for BOTB. Blogging has definitely affected my thinking if not warped my mind.
DeleteAgain it's Alan Parsons.
Lee
I've always liked Fleetwood Mac, Rumours is my all-time favorite album of theirs, with the song "Dreams" as my absolute favorite of their tunes.
ReplyDeleteAlan Parsons Project transports me to a very peaceful place and I could get lost in that song forever.
Mick and his band fell a little short, and after about five minutes I cut them off before I fell asleep at the keyboard, and switched over to Alan Parsons Project.
Giving my vote to Alan Parsons Project.
~Mary
Jingle Jangle Jungle
Mary, you're with the majority in your preference for the Nicks/Buckingham incarnation of Mac. "Time" does take the listener to a gentle peaceful place.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons
Lee
Speaking of 'a helicopter from which vantage point you are able to see the entirety of the parade from the staging area', there was recently an article around the web on scientists having very strong evidence that we are all just figurines in some cyber reality game of aliens :) It was such a delightful article, indeed.
ReplyDeleteI kinda hate time, the way it goes too quickly leaving a sense of unfulfilled destiny to most of us, especially as I'm nearing a very round number at my birthday next year.
Dezmond, that theory sounds like the premise of Stephen King's Under the Dome and probably a few other sci fi stories. I can imagine a delightful article regarding the theory, but nothing I would take very seriously.
DeleteAs we get older it's like time becomes our nemesis. Time is out to get us all and we are all trying to beat the clock. Time always wins.
Lee
You know, the way it's described (and the way I've always thought of it) is that time is the next dimension. The 4th dimension. That's how I bend my mind around it.
ReplyDeleteMy vote is definitely for Project Time.
Crystal, now scientists and philosophers are speculating as many as 10 or more dimensions. Time as one dimension is perfectly logical as it can be observed and measured. Definitely the criteria for be dimensional.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
I'm voting for The Alan Parsons Project's "Time." As laid back as it was, I actually got the sense it was going somewhere. Tempo-wise "Sands of Time" seemed a little faster, but it didn't seem to be going anywhere. A lot of music in the early Seventies was like that, I think, a couple of disjointed verses strung together by hours of jamming.
ReplyDeleteTime is the basis for practically everything in the science world, so it's hard to think of a world without it. In that case, time is a fourth dimension. But as far as something you can put your hands on, well, not so much. You can't actually "see" time pass. You can watch the second hand of a clock traverse the dial, but that's not actually seeing time pass. Nor is calling the time lady and listening to her say "At the tone, the time will be, four, forty-three, and ten seconds *beep*" for several hours. As Einstein, maybe the greatest scientist of the last century, said, it was just invented to keep everything from happening at once. It's a useful illusion.
John, your description of "Sands of Time" is exactly why I think it represents nonlinear time. It goes here and there and creates a more impressionistic panorama of philosophical thinking. I'm suggesting that this reflects Kirwan's own state of mind.
DeleteTime is a very limited construct that depends on place. Without the rotation of the Earth and its place around the Sun, if we were just in a spaceship heading toward the infinite reaches of the universe, how would time be measured. Time is dimensional and yet somewhat artificial. Locked in a room cut off from the world or any knowledge of external stimuli like day and night, we'd eventually lose any sense of time unless we had a mirror that might give us an idea about our aging process. But with no access to measuring time would our process of aging be different?
Anyway, a vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Wow! You have a Sizzlers? My daughter was devastated when it went out of business here. There's just something so appealing about self-serve, to a 5 year old.
ReplyDeleteA rancher and dear friend of mine lived to be 99 and swore that had he had his way, he'd a gone when everybody else did, instead of having too much time and too few to spend it with. I guess the importance of time relates to what one does with it.
Nevermind the superb suggestion of lulling waves (cymbals), Alan Parsons wafted far beyond the other contender ;-)
Diedre, we've had a Sizzlers a couple blocks from our house for the near 20 years that we've lived here so we've eaten there a number of times--well, at least twice a year. We've got a ton of eating choices right around where we live.
DeleteI guess as we get older it's good to keep on making new friends because the old ones will keep dying off. Though I always seem to find plenty to do with my solitary time. Always something that I can find to do that is worthwhile or at least pleasant.
This contest is showing a definite favorite so far. Another vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
I have a messed up view of time. I use it as a unit of measure. Just as I use a cup, a gallon, a gigabyte. I view it as a concept. Not a thing that exists. I believe that God has His own unique view of time. The linear and the non-linear and in ways we can't conceive of. As to these songs, I am more familiar with the Parson's Project song. I find however that I like the Fleetwood Mac song more. I think it is the music more than anything that makes me like it more. But also, I like that the lyrics allow me to interpret them however I desire. I can see them meaning something different to me each time I listened depending upon my mood.
ReplyDeleteBarbara from Life & Faith in Caneyhead
Barbara, well, I must say that was a beautiful comment showing that you really gave some thought to the post. Thank you!
DeleteGod is certainly out of our time and far beyond. Sees all, knows all and more than we can now imagine. Nice analogy with the measurements.
I get what you're saying about the Mac song. And it's a vote for Fleetwood Mac.
Lee
I preferred the Alan Parsons Project version. That arrangement just seemed more my style.
ReplyDeleteI'm told Asian novels tend to feature non-linear time much more often than Western novels. They do more than just featuring flashbacks, or splitting the story between the past and the present, but can frequently weave back and forth between points in the timeline.
When I was studying for my adult bat mitzvah at age nineteen, the cantorial soloist at my original synagogue told me something about the mystical vav in the Torah. I wish I remembered the specifics, but it has something to do with time shifting, standing still, etc., when the letter vav (which also means "and" when by itself) appears. A lot of sentences start with the word "And," so it happens a lot!
Carrie-Anne, thinking in nonlinear terms often requires more patience, focus, and thought which Westerners often don't seem to have. Even with flashbacks and time splitting, literature usually has a plot line with a certain amount of linear structure or it can be hard to follow. But then I've read fiction with no plot for the most part and then I think we start getting into the impressionistic view of life where there is more of feeling and general ideas involved than any actual story.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
I don't get daylight savings. It seems to serve no purpose these days other than mess up everyone's schedules. The parade analogy is a really useful one for thinking about how time works.
ReplyDeleteSailor, DST is utterly absurd. It's original purpose no longer makes sense, if it ever did. That parade analogy really clarified my thinking about thinking inside and outside of time as we typically think of time.
DeleteLee
I didn't realize that daylight savings time has been around since the early 1900s. I guess one motivation for keeping it is that it's a boon to the economy. Charcoal briquette sales soar as soon as it goes into effect. :-)
ReplyDeleteAs to the Battle, I'll have to go with Fleetwood Mac. I loved the harmony and guitars. And I've always been a fan.
C.Lee, I might question the economic benefits of DST. I've heard contrary arguments. To me it's an outdated idea that messes up my sleep schedule.
DeleteA needed vote for Fleetwood Mac.
Lee
All the days run together for me at this point. We don't have anywhere to have to be most days, so keeping up with what day it is isn't an important thing to us. At any given time, neither David or I will know what day it is until we look at the phone or computer clock.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that I see time as linear so much as like a bucket that only has so much in it and mine has sprung a leak somewhere. It is going by much too quickly.
Heavenly Father sees the overall picture and knows the eventual outcome, so it makes sense that time would be non-linear from His perspective. Whatever is meant to happen is going to, regardless of what "time" it is or the plans we've made for this time or that time.
This was a great post, Arlee, and offers a lot to think about. Have a blessed day.
Suzanne, since my wife still works we pay more attention to the days. It's different when she's on vacation so I know what you're saying about losing track. But then my blog schedule and church on Sundays would still keep me on track with the time.
DeleteIn reality, as you say, the bottom line is that time is just something by which to measure our own lives and in the end God sees where it is all going.
Lee
A cool Battle, LEE.
ReplyDeleteLong ago, I came across that Chuck Missler example of time (I've read several of his books). But years before I did, I had already hit upon that same example on my own: The very first time I hiked up to the Hollywood sign in the Hollywood Hills, I discovered that I could see cars on the twisting, winding roads far down below. And I realized that I knew the future for those drivers. (Example: Driver A going East and Driver B going West don't realize it yet, but they are going to pass by each other in about a minute, after they negotiate two more bends in the road. Neither of them knows that another car is coming toward them in a minute, but I know it. And God, being "higher" than I am, knows what's coming for me in the future, too.)
Because I've never really cared for either of these groups, I was surprised to find I liked both recordings. (And I'm really not getting the Prog-Rock feel to the Fleetwood Mac song. To me, the two major hallmarks of Prog-Rock -- and the major reasons I dislike it -- are random, abrupt, sudden and non-organic time signature changes; and a heavy emphasis on synthesizers.) To me, the Mac song has a much more Folk style to it than it does Prog-Rock.)
I rather dislike 'Eye In The Sky' and 'I Robot', but I did indeed like 'Time'. But then that would figure, because I'm a Pink Floyd fan and it sure as heck did sound like something that could have been lifted right off a Floyd album.
Both pretty good songs, but my vote goes to Alan Parsons.
~ D-FensDogG
Check out my new blog @
(Link:] Stephen T. McCarthy Reviews...
POSTSCRIPT:
DeleteI usually do most of my heavy contemplation about time at the INTERNATIONAL HOUSE OF PANCAKES. To each their own, eh?
~ D-FensDogG
Check out my new blog @
(Link:] Stephen T. McCarthy Reviews...
STMcC, your example is also a good one. I used to do something similar from the vantage point of the Look Rock fire tower on Chilhowee Mtn. overlooking Maryville, TN. Any view point like that can open up a lot of speculating on things about life and all.
DeleteI would have guessed your pick between these two choices to be the other one you didn't pick, but either one is a good choice in my opinion.
A vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
My own view is that we are the only ones dealing with a sense of "time." That God has no sense of "time" because time is no part of eternity. Eternity is not just a WHOLE LOTTA time... it is entire and complete and untouched by any concept of "time."
ReplyDeleteAs for the battle, I agreed with one comment that the FM song didn't really go anywhere. It wasn't bad, but as a fan of some actual prog-rock, it didn't have ENOUGH time changes and melody changes to make it interesting.
The Alan Parsons song - even though it sounded a bit like Pink Floyd (which is not a recommendation in my book) - wins this particular contest.
6Gun, exactly why God fits the nonlinear view. We can't even conceive what God's eternity is really like because we are too confined by our own sense of time.
DeleteThe meandering of FM is why I call it nonlinear. Parsons on the other hand does go "to the sea" in the end.
Another vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
What I'm saying is that God does not have a non-linear view of time... He has NO view of time. Time (linear or non-linear) does not exist; it is a man-made construct. I think that is different than what you or Missler are saying.
ReplyDeleteThe concepts involved are interesting to consider.
six, I do understand what you are saying. I'm just taking the concept of God, eternity, and all things related and attempting to separate it from the linearality of humankind. Certainly God is out of or beyond the confinements of time, space, or other dimensional precepts and it is more than we can ever actually conceive. God's Word, which I think we probably would agree is inspired by God, often refers to concepts of time, so I would take that to say that God has a view in relation to His Creation and us, but this is mostly for easier reference so we can somehow identify with God. But the fullness of God goes so far beyond the limitations and confinements of time and space that it's not an easy thing to grasp.
DeleteTo say things like "forever" and "eternity" are one thing, but to completely understand those terms is confounding. I don't believe God wants to completely confuse us and attempts to establish a personal relationship that is somehow inclusive despite our limitations.
Missler was just setting forth an easy analogy to start the student of his Bible study off to begin looking at the Bible in vastly different ways than a linear expository method of study that is most commonly undertaken. I took his example from his video course "Learn the Bible in 24 hours" which as the title might suggest is not literally an examination of the entire Bible, but an approach to undertake the study during ones lifetime. I'm only on the first hour so I may have misrepresented what is going on, but that's what I got from that first installment of the course.
Study of the Bible let alone attempting to understand God is pretty heavy stuff for a small human mind like I have so it's nice to have some simplified explanations to use as a starting point.
I don't know if I explained my view of this any better, but I do get what you are saying and absolutely agree. I think I partly addressed this in my somewhat facetious opening statement.
Lee
in one of your comments, you said we would have no feeling of time passing in a locked room, except for our aging. Wouldn't the aging itself prove its existence? If the present was all we had, why would we age? Many years ago, in my more restive years, I once spent 5 days on bread and water in a locked cell. I found that thoughts continued, one after the other, mostly angry. Doesn't it take time to complete a thought?
ReplyDeleteEinstein's comment had to be facetious. He's the one who theorized that time's passage would change drastically in a spaceship approaching the speed of light. Do you also question other dimensions or measurements, height, width, and thickness?
Finally, how can you know that God has no view of time? Is it something that slipped in without his noticing?
Jack, I also said to notice our aging would call for a mirror to view our aging and actually the almost imperceptible nature of aging might preclude even our noticing the event if we had no photographs or other people to compare our own aging to.
DeleteIf we were isolated from birth from any other human contact that we could actually see or hear and no other external stimuli would we develop any sense of time if we'd never had one?
In your cell, you were continuing on from a life where you had experienced time measurement and had expectations based on time so I would think that time would still be an issue whether 5 days or 5 years. More than that I think the concept of time would begin to fade into memory if you didn't keep track of days and indeed had no awareness of the passing of days and years.
As to the time to complete a thought, it's a variable depending on how one is thinking, but consider dreams. I've had dreams that felt like they've encompassed many hours only to find that it was only a few minutes or even a few seconds of sleep. That I think is close to nonlinear perception of time: The impressions of events presented as a whole where the mind might understand a vast amount of information in one fairly quick dose of thinking. I think the same can occur with daydreaming or our perception of things around us. It kind of like the old concept of seeing ones life pass before their eyes in an instant.
In the now world we have no reason to question tangible dimensions, but I don't know to what extent those are more artificial than real. I'll except those dimensions because they seem logical and they work for doing what I would need to do in my immediate realm of being.
I can only surmise what God would view or know based on my own limited knowledge. If God has the same limitations as I do then why should I accept Him to be an Almighty God who created all things. Linear time represents smallness and limitations. We can all conceive certain elements of nonlinear time. But if I accept a God more powerful than I am then He must be even bigger than anything I can imagine. However, that being said, I cannot prove this about God and I cannot absolutely saw that God has no view of time because I a merely a man.
Lee
Your argument reminds me of the endless debates attributed to Dark Age monks about how many angels could dance on the point of a needle. I don't know if they were questioning the 2 dimensions of a dance floor or the ability of a host of angels to dance on it.
DeletePut me down as pragmatic, Lee. Time is as useful as any other dimension, and I believe that God would have seen it as necessary to his creation. I will admit to having sensed a variety in its passage. It passed rapidly in the minutes of office confrontation with a Colonel and far more slowly in the following 5 days of solitary confinement. However, sensing time's passage has nothing to do with its reality. I would not need a mirror to know that I was aging.
Jack, yeah, when we start dealing in hypothetical situations and concepts the argument can take many twists and turns.
DeleteI also tend toward the pragmatic view of things to that extent that I am able. I agree that time is excessively useful--wouldn't be practical to operate in this life without it. As has been said, time is relative. I've spent a couple hours in a dentist chair that seemed longer than a fun day at an amusement park--that is until after it was over. I have no doubt that 5 days in solitary would be perceived far differently than five days on vacation or five days working 10 hour days. In retrospect though the perception might be that the vacation or work days were so filled with activity that since they have more memory content attached that in a way they could seem longer whereas as one was reaching the end of those five days it might have seemed to go by too quickly. Five days of solitary would be difficult for most of us to accurately conceive.
But, again using an almost absurd hypothetical, if one were to be placed in a spare room with no outside contact and all memories removed other than the basics of hygiene and how to eat and such would time be perceived if there were no understanding of what time meant and nothing by which to measure it like clocks, the sun, night, and so on. If we never remember seeing an older or a younger person and only knew what we looked like at any given moment, would the change over years be perceived? Hypothetical, but interesting to ponder. I don't really know what the answers are.
Lee
I have to agree with your opening quote, Arlee - for once. Daylight Saving time never made sense to me when I lived in the UK so why should it here.
ReplyDeleteBOTB - I'm going against my instinct here as I love Fleetwood Mac...but have to say I prefer the gentle, watery sound of Alan Parson. [Now if it was The Chain.......}
Roland, I'm somewhat surprised that they have DST in the UK. I always thought it was primarily an agricultural thing done for U.S. farmers.
DeleteAgainst instinct, another vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Fleetwood Mac gets my vote Lee.
ReplyDeleteGreat post.
Yvonne.
Yvonne, Glad to see you back! I was checking for new posts at your site--I'll check back now.
DeleteA vote for Fleetwood Mac.
Lee
I'd go with the Alan Parson's Project for this round simply because I remember and enjoyed that tune back in the day, but the Fleetwood Mac isn't familiar, although I love Fleetwood Mac (with Stevie Nicks).
ReplyDeleteTamara, the incarnation of Mac from those early 70's albums is not too well known.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
We have farmers in the UK, surprisingly, although I think it was a lot to do with schools and kids walking in the dark which felt odd.
ReplyDeleteRoland, the school argument is the one I most commonly hear now. Maybe that's valid in some parts of the country, but I don't know if it applies where I live. Seems like they could figure some other more accommodating solution than changing the clocks for everybody.
DeleteLee
Agree again, especially when schools often close mid-afternoon for some kids.
DeleteTime. I love to think about it. Point of fact, the notion of time travel is one of my favorite sci-fi, fantasy topics. It can be a good book movie, or TV show. I think time is ongoing, so it's possible. Is it a good idea? Probably not. Which is what makes it an excellent story.
ReplyDeleteI didn't much care for the Fleetwood Mac song. It was long. After about four minutes I was ready for it to be done. I guess that's a time issue, right??? Ironic. I enjoyed Alan Parson's all the way to the end. Granted, they had an unfair advantage in that I knew that song, liked it, and really enjoyed hearing it again. But, still, this one is easy for me. APP all the way.
Robin, time is something we all have in common so it should be of interest to all. If time travel is within the story concept, then I'm on board. I hate it when they screw up the story with illogical premises.
DeleteAnd another vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Fleetwood Mac is my favorite. Always have been one of my bands along with Creedence Clearwater.
ReplyDeleteOne pastor from a previous church insisted that 50,000years since creation. God doesn't have a clock.
Susan, there are young earth supporters among the Christian community as well as though who agree with the more scientific theories. I don't think it matters much either way because the time doesn't affect what God has done.
DeleteA vote for Fleetwood Mac.
Lee
I really enjoy listening to Fleetwood Mac, ever since one of my friends introduced me to them.
ReplyDeleteGina, I'm not sure if this is fair for me to do, but since you didn't mention APP then I'll give your vote to...
DeleteFleetwood Mac.
Lee
I like the description of time. It made it almost easy to understand except it didn't make slow down for me at all. My kids are still growing up way too fast.
ReplyDeleteI'm picking Alan Parsons. Maybe because it reminds me my teen years, but really I think because it does have a Floyd sound to it.
Elsie, time seems to go more quickly when we want more of it.
DeleteAnother vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
I don't use this word a lot, but I 'hate' Daylight Savings. I think its evil.
ReplyDeleteI like the parade idea of time.
I dare not make any comments on the songs you've chosen for fear of sounding unintellegent, but I like them both. Of the two, I'd say "Time" is my favorite.
Toinette, the "parade" of time passing is an excellent metaphor. Preference is never a mark of intelligence--we like what we like.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
So many people are slaves to time...maybe we all are to some degree. I think we like to think of it as linear but if we could go back in time, we may see ourselves running through... ourselves but we just don't know it because it is of a different moment in time..if you get my drift:) I don't mind Fleetwood Mac but I love APP and this song because it speaks to me more with its dreamy vibe so they get my vote
ReplyDeleteBirgit, we may be slaves or merely ruled by time. No matter what we are limited by time to some extent. Linear is the logical way we view time, but when we think about time we are all over the place.
DeleteAgain a vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
The seventies decade was indeed a time of phenomenal music. My vote goes to Fleetwood Mac.
ReplyDeleteNilanjana, seventies are my favorite era of music.
DeleteA vote for Fleetwood Mac
Lee
I was never a fan of the Alan Parsons Project so my vote goes to Fleetwood Mac. And I wish they would leave time alone.
ReplyDeleteMsHatch, leave time alone and give me back a bunch of it so I could have more time.
DeleteA vote for Fleetwood Mac.
Lee
Time can be so relative. Just ten day ago I attended a former classmate's funeral. He was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer only a month before!? A Dad to three kids between 10 and 15, and his time had come?
ReplyDeleteInteresting viewpoints on time you're talking about. Happy adjusting! Our spring ahead will only happen later this month.
Thanks for the musical contributions! My favorite is Alan Parsons Project.
Tamara, my dad died at age 67 from pancreatic cancer. It's a cruel affliction.
DeleteI feel much more adjusted now, but still always tired it seems.
A vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Would you believe it? I live a couple of hundred yards away from the clock tower at the top of your post! Greetings from sunny Bexhill-on-Sea!As for the Alan Parsons Project, I reckon I'm one of their biggest fans - I've already chosen 'When I'm Old and Wise'to be played at my funeral!
ReplyDeleteClick to visit Keith's Ramblings!
Keith, so cool that you've recognized the clock tower! Hope you don't have to use that Alan Parsons song for a good while, but I guess it's good to have your funeral planned.
DeleteA vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee
Don't know if I'm too late, but I'd vote for Fleetwood Mac, mainly because I like the arrangements better. I'm not a fan of the softer side of rock, but for a mellow tune, and a controversial subject (time), I'll stick with Fleetwood Mac.
ReplyDeleteDG, not too late and Mac needed a boost, but looks like they're not going to take a win in this contest. I'll announce the outcome on my Wednesday post.
DeleteLee
Lee, I'm a Fleetwood Mac fan, but I prefer Alan Parson's unique version of this song. I like how this relates to your next blog.
ReplyDeleteJulie
Julie, I've gotten into a trend of relating one post to the next whenever I can--like a continuing story.
DeleteAnother vote for Alan Parsons.
Lee