Sometimes it's hard to know how to respond to some things. In some cases it's pointless to even bother, but as a blogger I sometimes feel compelled to say something about what's going on around me. Besides,by addressing controversy I get content for a blog post so I might as well speak my mind.
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As recent visitors to my blog have been reading, I've embarked upon a series of posts that I've called the President Trump Acclimation Series where I clarify and try to correct some of the issues that have arisen in the minds of some who have questioned why I voted for Trump.
The reason why I'm doing this series, besides the questioning, is that I'm annoyed with the continuous reciting of the litany of labels that come from the anti-Trump crowd--racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, and so on. From the left we hear about the rise in bullying since the election of Donald Trump, but mostly what I see is the bullying against Trump supporters. This "harassment" comes from supposed friends and even relatives, people who suspect or happen to find out that someone voted for Trump, and a continual haranguing from left-wing media commentators and pundits.
I plan to continue this series until I stop hearing these labels being cited in my comment section, on other online sites, and on the television "news" shows. Or until inauguration day--whichever comes first. And that is if I keep feeling like doing the series. Stopping these posts is my prerogative just as not reading them is yours. I hope you'll stick with me so we can continue the good discussion we've been having. I also hope we can learn something.
Why I Am A Racist
How do I know that I am a racist? Because people have told me that I am. And how do those people know that I'm a racist? Because I announced that I voted for Donald J. Trump for President of the United States. Now, this is faulty deductive reasoning the way I see it. Using this model can it also be said that I'm a billionaire because I voted for Trump? This line of logic makes about as much sense as saying that everyone who voted for Clinton is at heart a woman with criminal intent or that if you voted for Sanders then you're a crazy old coot.
We each vote for our preferred candidate for very personal reasons. Some of those reasons may have a commonality with others who also voted for our chosen candidate while we might vote for the same candidate as someone else for very different reasons. If a particular candidate were actually a racist or displayed a proclivity for racism then it would not necessarily follow that one who voted for that candidate did so because of the racism. Typically most of us vote for a candidate based on economic proposals, social agendas, foreign policies, or some other relevant issues that are important to us.
Yet, after this recent election, once it was clear that Trump had won the electoral college (the vote that makes the difference in this country), we who voted for this man were excoriated for our vote by the sore losers on the other side. Sure, I can understand your disappointment and even anger, but is that a call to start spitting epithets at those on the other side?
Facebook was bad as were many blabbermouths in the media. To me this name calling and outright meanness was absolutely uncalled for and highly undignified. At no time in my many years watching elections have I seen such reprehensible behavior in response to an election outcome.
One particularly egregious response came from fellow blogger Andrew Leon at Strange Pegs. For many years I've tried to develop a friendly relationship with Mr. Leon despite his tendency toward pomposity and arrogance. I've enjoyed his writing style as well as some of his subject matter. However, after I read his post It's Not That I Don't Understand You , I was rather disgusted since this post seemed to be more directed toward me than anyone else. To belie any suggestion that I'm being overly sensitive or paranoid about his post I would direct you to a comment that I left on his earlier post Dying of Cancer. I had left a polite reasonable comment in response to that post and his response to me was so flagrantly rude that at that point I decided that I would not visit his blog any longer if he were going to take such a bellicose attitude toward me.
His second post on his "Trump voters are racists" topic was brought to my attention by another blogger friend who directed me to the post with the thought that the post was directed primarily toward me. After reading that post I was pretty much in agreement that Mr. Leon had me in mind when he wrote the post. To add insult to insult, not only did he say that I and other Trump voters are racists, but also we are assholes. Sounds like a sore loser to me--all common sense and ability to reason is replaced by emotional response. This emotional response seems to be the hallmark of the left. If they don't get their way then they call names, make false charges, pout, stir up civil unrest, and so on.
I've found that the best way to end a conversation is to call someone a "racist." How does one respond? To say "I'm not a racist" etc--Mr. Leon rattles off some likely retorts we accused might counter with--doesn't appease the argument. The leftist technique is name off a list of responses that they must have found in some leftist handbook or something. Then to really nip the bud with finality the leftist can cap things off by calling their opposition an "Asshole!"--yeah, that's always a constructive approach to sensible dialogue.
With Andrew Leon it's essentially that there is no need to have any discussion because I'm a racist and an asshole and he's right and I'm wrong. End of debate. Nothing to talk about.
Okay, that sounds real constructive I suppose.
On the Other Hand...
But then I got to thinking. Andrew Leon is a pretty brilliant guy. He's got a college degree and he's like a teacher or something. Mr. Leon knows just about everything about everything. I know that from reading his blog. He probably is one of the smartest guys in the world. And I ain't so smart. I certainly don't think as fast and as intelligent as Andrew Leon.
That's why I got to thinking: This blog post I've been talking about must have been intended for humor. Maybe it was like a parody or a satire or a treatise filled with witticism--an intellectual wit that is beyond my lowly capacity to understand such things.
Yes, of course! Mr. Leon was just funnin' us with some high sort of intellectual humor, but I'm not smart enough to get it...
Or maybe he thought we were engaging in some kind of exchange of ideas--something like a cross blog conversation.
Reading back it still doesn't seem to be very funny to me. I guess my initial reaction was based on a correct assumption--Mr. Leon really does think I am an asshole and a racist. The air of bitter gravitas mingled with an ugly dose of distemperatude permeates the mind of the reader of his blog post.
And here I am saying I'm not a racist, but I can say anything since this is my blog. Even though Andrew Leon says I'm a racist (and an asshole) because I voted for Donald Trump. I don't want to get into a blog feud with anyone and besides Mr. Leon has had more experience with that sort of thing than I have. I've always tried to be the nice helpful blogger who sometimes strayed onto the fringe of controversy, but always tried to be as diplomatic as I could be with visitors to my site or on the sites which I visited. Besides, if I keep going with my series it's likely that I will offend more people.
People sure get offended easily these days.
And now look what I've done. My main point in this post was to disprove the accusations of Donald Trump's racism. Now the post is too long. I'll continue this topic in an upcoming post. Right now I need to think up some nasty things to do in order to maintain my reputation as an asshole.
I might do a post on Wednesday, but then again maybe not. However I will post another Battle of the Bands match on Thursday December 1st. This next Battle will be a fun little ditty that hopefully lifts spirits as we enter the holiday season. Please don't miss it!
Has someone ever unjustly accused you of something? Do you think guilt by association across the board applies to a voter? If you kept track of what candidates were saying during the campaign, was it due to directly listening to their speeches or was it based on what commentators or others said that they said and sound clips taken out of context?
Don't feed the trolls or the haters, always been my view. Some people are just so self righteous they think they are God's gift or something to that affect. Humor is subjective too. As is topics one writes about. You will always offend someone with something. So just go to it and damn the rest. I just smirk at the few bits of hate mail I've received. They wasted their time writing out something I take 2 mins to read and 5 seconds to delete.
ReplyDeletePat, I wouldn't call Andrew a troll or hater, but he was a bit unsettled about the election along with many others. Hopefully Trump will bring happiness to all. I never delete any comments unless they are offensive to the extreme. And I can't do much about what others put up on their sites.
DeleteThanks for the words of encouragement.
Lee
Everyone has an opinion, don't they? And despite what some think, opinions are neither right nor wrong. Agree with what Pat said!
ReplyDeleteAlex, actually some opinions are not logical or fact based so I think those can be wrong. But opinion is in the opinionator's mind and if that's their world then let those who want to be a part of it join in on the inanity.
DeleteLee
Knock knock!
ReplyDeleteWho's there?
You're a racist!
Here is a link to an article I saw a few months ago. While it's about gun rights advocates versus gun control advocates, you can see the parallels to this discussion.
http://ijr.com/opinion/2015/07/245635-gun-rights-advocates-have-a-devastating-new-argument-against-gun-control-here-it-is/
In short, it's worthless to try and argue with these people, especially if they're going to resort to name-calling and ad hominem attacks, so you might as well just tell them to f*** off and go on with your life. Seriously, this was a nasty election where we were asked to choose the lesser of two evils, just like we've been asked to choose between the lesser of two evils in every election I can remember. It was either that or stay home and clean your guns. You did your civic duty as you saw fit.
And as for Andrew Leon, just remember, he's a lucky man: he can kiss your ass and you can't.
John, the article does have its parallels. Sadly in our time the easy out is to just say "F--- You!" to whatever we don't like or whatever we don't actually understand completely. Many people are ready and willing to condemn people like me without even knowing anything about our reasoning for doing what we do. They will be intolerant towards me because something in their closed minds seems to believe that I am intolerant. How can anyone come to any agreements under such rationale?
DeleteLee
Short answer: you can't. They're right, you're wrong, the science is settled, you're a racist. The only way to placate them is to say you were wrong and you're sorry and atone in whatever way you can.
DeleteOr you can just blow them off. I prefer the latter.
The racist issue is due to one thing. How can someone hear some of the things that he's said and still be okay with voting for him? How can you turn a deaf ear to his rhetoric? That's what we are wondering. (You don't have to answer. This is just what we're having an issue with.)
ReplyDeleteLiz, this will be the next part of the series. My question will be: What did Donald Trump say that was racist? I can give my answer which I see as correct whereas the explanations from the other side that I've been hearing are not fact-based or the conclusions have been arrived at through filtered reasoning. I will have an answer because to me the answer is clear and logical.
DeleteLee
I look forward to it!
DeleteI do believe Trump has racist views and skewered views on women. However I also believe that Bill Clinton had many affairs, lied and got impeached. Hillary is indeed crooked and Obama was unable to keep the premiums down on Obama Care and failed to close down Gitmo (is that the right short version for it?). At the end of the day there are various reasons to be for or against a candidate and I'll admit before 2016 I was somewhat leaning in Trump's direction. I'm certainly not a racist or misogynist and didn't change my views out of fear of being viewed as such.
ReplyDeleteAndrew L. is clearly among those who feel his emotional and intellectual thoughts go above all arguments in this election season. I always thought his posts had a bit of a grandeopusnes to them and though I'm definitely thumbs up his non-angry intellectual posts, I haven't visited his blog in a long while. However I did check the posts you pointed out Arlee and to me he crossed the line of polite discourse and fair conversation on all levels. If you need to stoop to name calling and expletives to get your point across when someone disagrees with you... you fall straight off the cliff in my eyes (there are some exceptions but this was not one of them). At the end of the day for me it takes a low individual to aim mean rhetoric at someone who only respectfully disagreed with an opinion. Whether it matters or not Arlee, I send you kudos for keeping your head up despite those who try to drag you into a fray of anger and nasty behavior. I will say though that I took the time to go through some of his blog posts and his non-angry election posts usually have less than 5 comments before he responds and the election ones have twice that or more. Is this a form of blogging click bait then? I don't know. Either way, I doubt I'll comment on any of his political posts since his sensitivities seem to be turned on high. His Star Wars posts are cool though. I'll backtrack and read through his newer ones one day.
I commend you on taking the chance of opening dialogue and respectfully sharing your views in this blog series. Agree or disagree you'll have a positive discourse with this lady blogger. Also I have seen online assault by some people claiming to be Trump supporters. At least one author I know online had to limit access to her Twitter account because of it. I'm from Jamaica so I have no live viewing of the prejudice other than online and on television. But I do believe that on the reverse Trump supporters themselves have been attacked. I have read articles about it as well as was very angry when Hillary called them 'deplorables' and Michelle Obama tried to bully Third party supporters into voting Democrat. Shame on both of them. Especially Michelle who doesn't usually get into such mudslinging (at least from the little I know). Anyway sorry that my comment was so long (and not sorry because I had lots to say). I don't always pop in Arlee but when I do I promise to give you my honest opinion and never put you down. Go in love. :)
Sheena-kay, that was one of the finest comments I've seen here on my site or anywhere else for that matter. Your words represent exactly the kind of intelligent discourse we should be having from both sides of the issue and which is what I was hoping to have here on my posts.
DeleteWe all don't have to agree about things, but there is no productive gain in shouting at each other or insulting each other. Disagreement should not equivocate hate or stupidity--at least not from the outset before hearing any rational argument from the other side. So many people in our time are more willing to silence voices of opposition unless it is their own voice trying to stifle the status quo and then they can scream, disrupt, and destroy in the name of their own "freedom". It is a double standard that none of us should tolerate.
Thank you for you "long" comment of substance which explains your side and supports my right to speak my side. In the end most of us probably want the same things, but maybe we are hoping to achieve those things in different ways with some variation on our respective worlds.
And thank you for addressing my post with the intellectual sense of reason that I've been striving to achieve in what is generally an unpopular subject, but considering how many people respond as negatively as they do maybe it is a subject that should be addressed more intelligently. Keeping cool is difficult for many when they are angry, but I've found that breaking things and hurting others in our anger creates more problems and more damage to clean up later on. Unproductive is how I view it.
Now only if I can get more excellent comments such as yours, a glimmer of hope might become a brilliant light of understanding.
Lee
Thank you so much Arlee. Definitely better to try and understand each side than just shout across the aisle. :)
DeleteSo I looked at your comment, back at the post, back to your comment, down to his. This is the thing that EVERY liberal I am contacted with does. They can throw out any mean, vile, insulting thing against those they disagree with- but challenge them and it's all "I don't want to engage in your inane debates." And they cannot even do that with an ounce of respect to the person they are talking to. I have rarely seen people become so crass and cowardly as this, and it's what tipped me over the edge last week in my blog.
ReplyDeleteIf you have an opinion, you should be able and willing to DEFEND it as well as beat people over the head with it. You and I both know someone who recently decided that if they could not get me to tone down my "red-state rhetoric", they would just insult everyone who agrees with me and take their balls and jacks and leave. Just today I was reading another person's blog yet again crying about how scared they are that Trump is this big Godzilla that's going to tie knots in their vaginas before he kills us all. It. Gets. OLD.
The sad thing is, you SHOULD be able to show them what they wrote six months, a year down the road and have them say, "Wow, what a jerk I was." But they'll never see it that way. It's a shame, because they are crippling their own human spirit over an agenda.
CW, so true! So sad, but so true and sadly there is not much you or I can do about it. For some reason the demeanor of the left is often one of superiority and condescension. It's like they have all the right answers and no one else is worth listening to, but everyone on the other hand should be listening and believing everything they say.
DeleteWell, like you say, I have just as much to express my side of the story as they do. The problem is they will rarely give you the time unless it has to do with you adulating about their greatness. Well, on my blog I'll say what I want when I want even at the expense of losing followers (18 since the election results and probably many more if I keep going with the present series). Some things are worth saying even if it upsets some folks and makes me one of the most unpopular bloggers on the block.
If a Trump presidency turns out to be highly successful, as you say, the naysayers now will likely be saying nothing about it in a year or digging into their bag of lies and distortions to find something bad to say about it all. If I get any apologies from those who denigrated me and the other Trump supporters I will be totally amazed--something I don't expect to see happen and not because Trump won't be successful as a president.
Now we are at the time to see who our real blog friends are and who are the biggest phonies with words that you'll ever see anywhere at any time.
Lee
Lee-
Delete(1) You ARE a racist. But the first step is admitting you have a problem...
I would venture to guess that if the right buttons are pressed, deep down EVERYONE is a racist.
(2) One of your 18 followers lost was me-somehow, my reading/following list vanished over the weekend. But, as Arnold said, "I'll be back!"
Funny thing that some people seem to be rooting for Trump to fail-wouldn't that be good for the country?
What has been lost in America has been respect for other points of view, and that seems stronger with "liberals" who I would think would be the most open to other viewpoints.
I did not read Mr. Leon's post of your comment exchange, but it soulds like his hasty judgements of you are reflective of what is wrong with the soul of our country.
Debate is down to a high school sports mentality.
RULES!!!
SUCKS!!!
As long as everyone acknowledges that I am always right, we should be fine.
Larry
Larry
This was supposed to read:
DeleteMy Team RULES!!!
Your Team SUCKS!!!
One hallmark of this election was name calling which does not bode well for any of us. I take the time to write my congressmen about issues I deem important. It is too early to know how President Trump will function. I'm keeping my mind open.
ReplyDeleteAnn, I'm not sure that the "name-calling" of the election will be much of an indicator how Trump will run the presidency. I'm expecting a more businesslike and efficient operation. Now that I look back on the campaign I continue to find more evidence of the way the Trump's mission was devised and pursued. An open mind is important and if my hopes are fulfilled I think we could see some amazing things in the next several years barring some catastrophic event not in our plans nor to our advantage.
DeleteLee
Though (most of) my political views seem to be quite different from yours, I always try to follow the famous line "Who is wise? One who learns from every person" in Pirkey Avot (a six-chapter book of the Talmud which is very accessible for studying and understanding). Even if people don't have the same views or personalities, they can at least try to learn from one another and understand why someone would hold much differently. As I've gotten older, I've come to realize I might have much different beliefs (about many things, not just politically) had I been born into and raised in different circumstances. We all also need to learn to listen and understand what other people are saying, not just to hear and immediately react. In that way, it's kind of similar to initially disagreeing with or hating a critique partner's comment on my writing, but possibly starting to understand where the comment was coming from after taking some time to really think about it.
ReplyDeleteCarrie-Anne, I don't think any one point of view has absolutely all of the right answers so it is important to listen, learn, and then act accordingly. I think your point is well made.
DeleteOne stand out aspect about Trump for me is that he says he fully supports Israel. To me, a solid partnership with Israel even at the expense of most or even all of our allies is utmost. As do many others, I see Israel and Jerusalem at the center of all things. From what I see about the people Trump has been surrounding himself with, I think he has a good company of advisement.
Lee
I also went to read Andrew's blogposts. He stated what he thought, and I'm sure he speaks for a few people just as you do, Lee. I grew up watching racism everyday and it made me sick. Politics are one of those things we shouldn't discuss, precisely because of what is happening during and after this election. Like religion, we cannot agree and we get nasty when we disagree (in general). I just hope Trump doesn't screw up too much while he's in office (having never had political experience prior to this) and I shudder when I see who he appoints as his advisory team. I'm an observer, and I'd like to see if this peacock will change his feathers.
ReplyDeleteDG, you say Andrew stated what he thought, but take into consideration that he was lambasting me and others who might believe like I do that he thought we were jerks and need to just shut up because we are wrong. That is one side to your position that we shouldn't talk politics or other sensitive issues. However, I'd say that this stubborn and mean-spirited reaction on that liberal side is exactly why we should talk. I listen to many sides and hopefully learn something from the best parts of each. Those who think the Trump supporters don't need to explain our votes and talk about what we believe should stop calling us "racists", "haters", "assholes", or whatever insult they think we should have thrown our way as we quietly sulk off in shame or apologize for the error or our ways. No need to get nasty about disagreement when trying to understand what each side believes will progress us further (hopefully). I think in the end we'd find that we agree on more points than not.
DeleteLee
Sadly, I composed a longer comment early this morning which was "eaten" by Blogger. I should learn to compose them in Word or Text and then copy and paste. This comment will be shorter and more to the point.
ReplyDeleteI read his comments and I was shocked at the mean-spirited bile directed at you by Andrew Leon. You two have visited each other's blogs frequently and had - I thought - developed enough courtesy and respect to allow a dialogue. Apparently only YOU had, not him.
He was insulting, mean, and close-minded. He called you names and then said he would not discuss it with you. You were simply and incontrovertibly a RACIST... just because you cast a vote he did not agree with.
He is entitled to his viewpoint, but he has - by his own actions - admitted that he is a myopic totalitarian. Free speech, reason, discussion, give-and-take, attempting to understand, even DEMOCRACY are NOT welcome on his blog or in his mind.
Good riddance. You are a courteous intellectual, Andrew Leon is neither. Keep having this discussion. I think that those of your readers that claim to be open-minded may stick with you long enough to see beyond what they have "learned" from MSNBC and CNN.
Some here have commented about some ill-tempered Trump supporters, but the numbers of those PALE in comparison with the rioting whiners that march daily complaining about the outcome of the vote. These folks supported the candidate that was NOT asked in the debate if she "would accept the outcome of the election." I guess the moderator asked the wrong person.
SBB6, sorry about that early comment, but I know how that goes sometimes. Losing the long comments is the worst Blogger atrocity.
DeleteI've always attempted to keep a very civil arrangement with Mr. Leon despite the fact that he repeatedly tells me that I'm wrong about this or that. But that's fine since we can certainly disagree about things. Calling me (and other Trump supporters) an "Asshole" was beyond reasonable discourse. There was nothing constructive in how he approached the topic. I guess I can just pass it off as venting ones rage, but there are far more intelligent ways to vent especially from one who presents himself as some sort of elitist intellectual.
I've also gotten the sense in some of this past blog posts that he wants to purge his comment section from anyone he doesn't like or with whom he has strong disagreement. I think he has been successful noting that the comments on his posts are usually few.
I've found that no matter how upset I am it's far better to keep a cool demeanor and just try to get to the root of whatever problem is at hand.
I think that so many people just went with the assumption that Trump could not win and Hillary was due a coronation that they were in absolute shock when this did not happen. The incessant complaining and insulting abated for maybe 2 seconds after the election and then continued on and on and still continues. They want their way and we just want them all to shut up and accept the truth. Until they examine themselves and the state of the country I don't think they can handle the truth.
Thanks for your support of my side and for joining the attempt to clarify the issues that I've been discussing.
Lee
Your post was written with treu honesty Lee. We are all entiitled to our opinions whether others like it or not. Having met you I can honestly say you are a wonderful, caring person who showed a complete stranger the sights of LA.
ReplyDeleteWhatever your views are will never take away that day away from me. Thanks Lee.
Yvonne.
Yvonne, thank you for that sweet endorsement. Actions speak louder than words as they say, but considering what has been going on of late I feel the need to express myself in words since few readers will ever actually know me.
DeleteLee
I wouldn’t make such a blanket statement as “all Trump supporters are racists.” That’s a prejudice in itself.
ReplyDeleteThere was a person who was wearing pro-Trump attire who, on Election Day, said to his friend (after looking at me), that it was clear who I voted for, and that I should go back to my own country.
1- Was it? Was it clear? I didn’t have the name of any candidate anywhere on my person, unlike these two. So what exactly made my choice clear? And there in is the reason that I feel that those two Trump supporters, who I have never met and do not know, are racists. The only possible conclusion, given that they decided they knew who I voted for based on my skin.
2- I doubled over in laughter. They stood on the land of the Lenni-Lenape tribe and told ME to go back to MY own country. If you need to explain irony, there you go. I’m not sure if that’s racism. Telling someone who is in their home to go home… that… hmm… I really don’t know what the word is for that.
(cont'd)
But the reason that I don’t feel that I can discuss most of my personal life online was brought up during the political debates, and continues to be an issue. I hide a lot of who I am so as not to offend potential readers. That’s just business. See, I am an outsider. I know that I’m an outsider. I’ve always been one. I always will be one. But I think there was a big community, perhaps more than one, that was starting to feel less like outsiders. And now there has been discussion that their rights might be taken away. There have been news reports that some of these people will be fired from their government jobs next year because they felt safe when their group got invited to the “cool” table. They don’t want to be outsiders again. Maybe they only had one birth item that kept them on the outside all this time, so they’re hooting and hollering and begging not to be cast back out.
DeleteI don’t believe in society as much as they do. I know about the blankets. It’s all blankets. Rights taken away, small pox given… it’s just history repeating. That sounds depressing.
But I wasn’t raised with the notion that I’d ever fit in. I was raised being told not to expect that. I was raised knowing that I would never fit in outside of my tiny community. The more I traveled the world, the more I learned that this is true.
There are some people who want diversity. Who want to live next door to people with other cultures. They want to learn about the world and experience all there is. I’m one of those people. But there are also people who do not want to live next door to anyone who is different, or who is proud of being different. Pack mentality, survival of the fittest, going with the crowd— that’s how they want to live. Some of them are okay with equality, as long as it’s equality among those who are their own peers. The class system, one of the more bizarre imports from Europe. I’ve never understood it, but okey dokey, there it is.
(cont'd)
The reality is that there was going to be an argument no matter who won this election. Did several groups who are proud of their prejudice, people like the ones who told me to “go home” (seriously, where is this magic place???), openly say they supported Trump? Yes. I saw those reports, as did many others. It’s still there. Almost nothing vanishes from the web, right? But does that mean you joined those groups by supporting the same person they did? I don’t think so. I think racism is more of a conscious decision. I could hate all the pale people for the mass genocide of (there’s no number, no one was doing a population count) the majority of two continents of humans. I could be angry at the number of my people that were exported as slaves. Who would I yell at? (Maybe the people who are proud of it. Maybe just the ones who tell me to go home. Seriously, there’s ten thousand some years of my ancestors under your feet. What is the definition of the word home in this case?) I just don’t have the time and energy for all that. I’d sooner convert a few into customers and take their money and time. At least that benefits me, personally. And if I use that money toward charity events for my tribe’s historical preservation, that benefits the group. I can’t fight racism. I don’t think a bunch of non Native Americans are going to “go home.” (Really, would they be able to figure out where it is?) So I just go about living the best I can and keeping truths that make certain people uncomfortable to myself.
DeleteDo you have a post for what makes you and Donald the same and what makes you different? That sounds interesting.
Okay, this comment is entirely too long. I’m gonna stop now.
I looked on your blog to contact you privately. I did not want to excessively comment on Lee's blog. I respect his opinion. Although I respectfully disagree.
DeleteOne problem with racism is that people not affected do not pick up on the rhetoric nor do they understand the sinister sneaky nature of how it rears it's head. I'm not a person of color. I'm white and I know the overt racist are dangerous to anyone. This tit for tat about one individual did is a very dangerous game. The KKK and other groups can use this to be legitimized. They are dangerous.
One irony in Georgia is you would be surprised how many African Americans secretly and openly supported Trump.
You are right about looking at all of this from a business angle. As a potential writer, not writing about politics actually forces me to tap into my creative center better. I think God opens the door to how God wants to use you and it may not be something you feel passionately about.
Like I have said, I have a lot of respect for Lee. He is a good Christian man and not a racist. I feel confident that the voice he has so passionate for Trump will be the same voice he uses for calling someone out for discrimination. It takes someone unafraid to voice their opinion to speak up.
As much as people hate to listen to the opposing view, its that dissension that allows us freedom to grow.
J, thank you for the passionate and deep look into your point of view. From our past private interchanges I've learned something about your heritage and your beliefs and I've been encouraged to do further research. You make some excellent points in your comment (whew! that was indeed some comment!) and I get at least some inkling about the source of your passion.
DeleteAnd though I hear what you're saying, my thought is that the past is behind us and cannot be changed. As a history buff, I think it's good to know more about our past and attempt to derive a deeper understanding of the lessons that are there for us. Education of those who speak ignorantly is important and the education needs to look at the arguments of all sides. None of us knows everything and we can learn from each other if we listen.
I understand your decision to protect your career which is the same reason that I've tended to hold back on many of my opinions on my site. We can easily be labeled by others who are tactlessly agenda driven and I've tried to avoid that. Being labeled due to my support for Donald Trump has changed this. I have been falsely accused of certain things by certain people and the media so I think there is value in speaking out, but doing so in a spirit of rational behavior and as thoughtful expression in words that I can muster.
I think in my future posts I will be addressing the similarities and differences I see between Donald Trump and me. If there is something that I miss I invite my audience to bring it to my attention so I can address these things to greater satisfaction.
I appreciate you J. and anytime you want to leave a long, long comment I have no problem with that. Thanks for this current comment.
Lee
Ann, thank you for your vote of confidence on my behalf. Voting for a candidate can mean many things to different people. Some heard Trump's words and all they heard was racism and that turned them off with adamant rejection of his total message. My argument is that the racism was not there at all in the way they thought. And he had many messages including the economy, international relations, healthcare, education, national security, and so many others. Donald Trump's platform was so often misrepresented by the media and others that it created this myth of Trump--a political scenario based on lies of the left and misrepresentation and distortion by the voices who didn't like the candidate.
DeletePeople of all races and backgrounds voted for Trump for whatever issues appealed to them. From my point of view as a Christian, Donald Trump was the choice in this election who best represented the values in which I believe. There are many others who saw this the way I did.
Thanks, Ann, for adding your voice to this discussion. It's great to have civility!
Lee
I do think you're a good guy. Wouldn’t keep you on my friend list otherwise.
DeleteAnd I am sorry that they've put a false label on you.
Trust me, I know what the false label is like. (Since I've been labeled with more heritages than Tony Shalhoub, Vin Diesel, and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson COMBINED have played in their careers.)
Education is most definitely something we can agree on. That was what I really liked about Bernie-- he had one heck of a plan for education! If only we could have taken the best parts of all the candidates (and yeah, I think they ALL brought something good to the table) and made one more good choice.
But this is a Republic. The popular vote is used to determine Federal Funding for elections, not the outcome of Presidential races. That’s what the Electoral College is for— a group that doesn’t even legally start voting until next month. Granted, several states have laws requiring their electrics vote by party or by state popular vote percent. And because those people would be fined for voting another way, the press feels confident in declaring a winner before the polls are even open.
If you really need an out from some of the harassers, you can point out that, in reality, you voted for Federal Funding of election money be directed to the Republican party over the next four years, and voted in favor of the electrics in your area to support Trump. It was about as meaningful as a letter to your Congress person or Senator. (Which, based on the form replies I’ve gotten from them in the past, is worth considerably less than writing a letter to a corporation that sells grocery store products. They at least send coupons and apologize to you! Ha ha ha.) People need to let it go. You might very well have a Republican candidate in your area over the next four years who is worthy of those campaign funds. (Jill Stein was unable to bring the required percent of votes in to earn Federal Funding for her party. Due to the Electoral College, she never could have won, even with a 100% landslide of the popular vote. Point that out to people.)
And thanks for the comment reply, Ann.
We had similarly erronious assumptions voiced about out views when we voted to leave the EU.
ReplyDeleteLiz, the fears about what might happen are usually far different than what actually does happen. Projecting our fear onto the future might have some affect upon that future, but most of us tend to adapt and just move on I think.
DeleteLee
I've been accused a few times of doing something that I didn't (with my first book, I was accused of writing porn & filth, both terms are interchangeable these days). It took me a long time get over it as it happened at work and my writing rep took a major hit that four years later it still hasn't recovered from.
ReplyDeleteI have been unfriended by someone on FB because they were unwilling to defend a news article link that they posted up on their wall (I think it had to do with gay marriage) and when I pushed them about it, they unfriended me.
I find that most educational professionals skew left and practice intolerance for other viewpoints (a notorious case involves Marquette University attempting to fire a tenured professor because he had the audacity to criticize another teacher over her treatment of a student who disagreed with her on gay marriage in his blog).
In fact, this past T-giving, I chose the option of babysitting a six month old foster baby because the other would have involved sitting at the table listening to six others hammer Trump and Trump voters.
I Are Writer!
Father Nature's Corner
GB, I find it so ironic that the most liberal thinking folks who claim to be so tolerant and inclusive are not that way in actual practice. Dare to differ and you might experience their relentless wrath which includes their own brands of intolerance and unwillingness to accept viewpoints that differ from their own. We see this on college campuses as conservative speakers are sometimes banned as well as traditional national symbols like the American flag. The left seems to feel it is their duty to force their views on others while stifling the free speech of those on the opposite side.
DeleteThis year my wife and I happily spent Thanksgiving by ourselves with no family animosity present. Had we done our usual big feast for 30 people I think there would have been an air of uneasiness as only a few of us would have been Trump supporters. And I had already seen what some of them had been saying on Facebook which was the main impetus for this current blog post.
Lee
LEE, I'm reading your Trump series with interest, even though I feel certain I already know where you are going every step of the way. And that segues into what I consider to be one of the biggest problems we face...
ReplyDeleteA huge segment of the American population STILL believes it can trust the Mainstream Media to present it with valuable news information. What they've failed to realize is that the Mainstream Media organs (CNN, MSNBC, FOX NEWS, CBS, ABC, the NEW YORK TIMES, HUFFINGTON POST, WASHINGTON POST, et al.) are nothing more than propaganda institutions being used by the Establishment to condition the sheeple and manipulate their viewpoints.
If one wants to learn the truth, he/she needs to take the time to investigate alternative news sources. There are some very good, very reliable ones out there, thanks to the Internet. But finding them can be a time investment and it isn't accomplished in one afternoon.
The Mainstream Media is in the business of distorting, half-truthing, and flat-out lying in order to give the sheeple their Establishment-approved opinions to hold. And as long as people are going to be so dimwitted as to believe the Mainstream Media is telling them anything that even remotely looks like the truth -- without fact-checking a thing -- we are going to be troubled by fools with heads filled with nonsense who are going to passionately, even angrily, defend that nonsense against other people who are simply trying to wake them up to the truth!
Another major problem is "party politics". There are too many people who are more loyal to their selected political party than they are to fact-finding and morally sound, intellectual honesty.
And then we also have people who are simply obstinate, stubborn, with whom you simply can't reason because their bullheadedness won't allow them to ever admit they could have been wrong and you might have been right.
~ D-FensDogG
'Loyal American Underground'
STMcC, your described approach of getting info from multiple sources is how I tend to approach a decision like who to vote for. From listening to my detractors (or those who don't agree with my Trump vote) you'd think they merely memorized the Litany of Labels that are continually enumerated by those in the media or on the left. I've become very bored as well as indignant to hear these labels not only rattled off to describe Trump but also anyone who voted for him or voiced a support for him. Hearing this convinces me that these people never actually listened to what Trump said.
DeleteAs far as the party politics I think you're correct, but somehow a great many voters have had this ingrained within them. To one person on Facebook who criticized my voting decision and prided their own affiliation as a Democrat, I pointed out some of the parts of the party platform that I would have thought might not sit well with them and they in turn accused me of basically being a religious nut. Convincing the other side is probably going to be a slow process of education, but even then I'm not sure that it will convince those who apparently think of political affiliation as an unchangeable thing like the color of their skin or the size of their head or whatever. That's probably also where the obstinance comes in.
I didn't vote Trump, but was one of those evil people who voted 3rd party. My dad did though, so whenever people fling out the racist card it makes me mad because I know my dad isn't a racist.
ReplyDeleteThe main reason I know he isn't is because I have met people who were racist. Hubby had a roommate who actually thought black people were less human, and his late grandmother was very racist. (One time she asked me my maiden name and I got a nod of approval because it sounded white. I was conflicted about her because she was family and a sweet lady and I understood her racism came from the time she grew up in and nothing I said would change that. In a way, it kinda wasn't her fault for being taught it was okay.) Now, my dad is rough around the edges, speaks his mind, and may be insensitive at times, but he is nothing like hubby's roommate and grandmother.
I really wonder if these people throwing these accusations around have actually met someone who was racist or homophobic or whatever. When you've actually seen hatred like that, it sticks in your brain and you remember.
I just want to note I should add SOME to my last paragraph. I know there are people saying these things who have met racist people, but also that not all of them have.
DeletePatricia, "some" is an important distinction that is part of what is at the core of what I'm trying to convey with my series. Many people have been quick to cast a blanket of aspersion on everyone who voted for or supported Donald Trump--all of us thrown into that "Basket of Deplorables" with no salvation for any of us.
DeleteWe have been taught the wrongness of stereotyping people and yet those on the left do this with the Trump voters. To say that 60 million people all think exactly the same is absurd. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton both represented many things to many different people. Trump's platform was not a support for racism--at least not in my view or the view of most of those who supported him--and a vote for him was not by default a vote for racism. This is absurd irrational thinking from those who are saying this.
Lee
Hi Lee -- I was especially interested in reading this post because I was recently called a homophobe and a bigot by some writer guy on Facebook. My original comment on a friend's page was about distinguishing between harassment and just being rude (in relation to that Hamilton kerfuffle. Somehow it morphed into me refusing to denounce Governor and Vice-President Elect Mike Pence because I had no information about his present day thoughts and behavior and therefore I must be evil. Geesh!
ReplyDeleteSince way early in the primary campaign, I stopped listening to the newscasters and political pundits (and especially ideological bloggers) who twisted words and misrepresented candidates. I watched debates and speeches all the way through -- it was the only way to get the correct information.
Patricia, what happened to you at Facebook is similar to the circumstance that inspired me to focus on my series. I'm not as interested in winning over more readers (I've lost 18 followers on my blog so far) as I am in putting the truth out there for those who will listen. Unfortunately the noise and clutter coming from everywhere about this election outcome has muddied the waters of sensible thinking.
DeleteI see Mike Pence as one of the most reasonable sounding people in politics today. He might believe differently about certain things than those on the left, but his committed beliefs are based on his values and the tenets of his faith. Rather than attacking the man on perceptions, accept him for his perceptive ability to reason and behave reasonably.
Your approach at getting the facts was similar to my own, although I probably did listen to those wacky TV people way too much. The words and the conveyance of those words were best understood by listening to the candidates. Interpretations are prone to skewing based on the bias of the interpreter. I'd rather make my own interpretations based on what I've gotten directly from the source.
Lee
I'm a racist, a disgrace to women, don't deserve my daughters and granddaughters and deserve every horrible thing I get.
ReplyDeleteIt sure has been a rough couple of months for me, a sensitive write type.
What I've learned through this experience is, these are the adults you get when everyone gets a trophy and the hypocrisy is loud but not clear to the hypocrites.
I'm enjoying your posts!
Doreen, some of the things I see in the upcoming generations is disconcerting, but then there are the good kids. Too much sensitivity and political correctness is creating stress and social unease. Everybody should just get along and learn from each other.
DeleteThank you for reading and I hope you will continue to enjoy the posts in my series.
Lee
I’m having a severe comment quandary here today. I have been out of town for the Thanksgiving Holiday, actually quite near to you. I was visiting Disneyland with my family. It was wonderful and not the least bit of that wonderfulness was to be away from the television and blogging world. Upon my return I thought I would check in to see what was going on. YIKES!
ReplyDeleteI have read through all of the posts and comments with respect to this post including Mr. Leon’s (I admit that I used to follow him, but gave up quite some time ago, because I found him to be relatively toxic. This current round surpasses even his normal level of toxicity.) I find it shocking that so much of what he writes about voting choices and assholes seems to apply directly to him, and I say that ONLY based on the things he has written in these few posts.
Anyway…I have to admit that I do support you in my heart and feel that you were most definitely treated poorly. I also need to admit that I’m having a hard time supporting you in print, primarily because you not only did not support me when another blogger did much the same thing to me (but truly over a much more trivial matter), but you continued an open friendly relationship with this particular jerk. Now I admit that I was probably too sensitive at the time (I did say it was over a trivial matter), but all the same it hurt deeply that long-time friends (more than just you) did not support me openly, I am grateful that at least a few did. So, in answer to your question, yes I have been there and done that. At the time I chose not to answer the jerk and let his comments and rant slip into obscurity. I was told by others that since that time he has come unglued on others also, and many a folk have simply slipped away, out of his verbal grasp.
I’m sorry if that was unfair to express at this time. I really don’t mean to ‘kick you when you are down’, but I thought maybe you should know and I am finally strong enough to talk about this issue and express my feelings openly.
Anyway…If you’re still reading I have a few thoughts about this whole issue. I don’t talk about who I vote for. It’s a secret ballot for a reason and this election is reason enough. Also, I’m still angry at the US for disenfranchising me when I lived outside the boundaries of the 50 states. I held a US passport and was living in a sanctioned US Territory, but was not allowed to vote for the POTUS. It was interesting to find out that most of the ex-pats who lived on my island were not disenfranchised because they still owned property in one of the 50 states, and could link to that address (even thought it might be vacant land) and cast an absentee ballot. Do you really want to talk elite rights in the voting process with me?
In reading Mr. Leon’s post about understanding you, he seems to think that looking at racism from the outside gives you a clear understanding of it. Well, I am here to tell you and him, that’s simply not true. While living outside the country I experienced racism directed at myself, you see I was in the minority, and not just as a woman. I experienced people intentionally going out of their way to try to make me afraid, intimidate my opinions, and feel less qualified, adequate, and knowledgeable (interesting all things Mr. Leon seems to be working at in his posts.) I learned first-hand how it feels to be the lesser human being, and know it’s not pleasant, but no matter I still say; EVERYONE IS AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT RACIST.
OK, that outta get everybody going, but take a look at the definition of racism.
FAE, an epic comment and only part I yet.
DeleteI live about 12 miles from Disneyland. You were right in my backyard.
Funny you mention that Mr. Leon's posts about assholes seemed to apply back to him. That's what I was thinking when I was reading.
I hear what you're saying about that past incident and I know you've been upset with me. I was just trying to smooth things over in what seemed to me a misunderstanding.
Now I've stepped away from Mr. Slim after he made a joke about something that offended me a bit so I countered with my own and it upset him enough to sternly lecture me about what I did.
I'm not going to bother. I'm thinking just to do the Battle of the Bands posts and nothing else. Maybe slow down with the blogging a bit.
I was happy to tell people I was supporting Trump during the campaign, did a few Trump related posts, and tweeted about Trump quite a bit so I guess it was obvious who I voted for.
Not being able to vote when you were in the islands was a bummer I guess. I didn't ever vote until I was 37 I think it would have been. Always being on the road made it difficult to vote and I wasn't interested anyway.
Racism can be looked at from various angles. And I think you are right when you say about everyone being racist to some degree. Or at least prejudiced about something.
That was one heck of a comment, but I loved it.
Lee
'Racism is a product of the complex interaction in a given society of a race-based worldview with prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. Racism can be present in social actions, practices, or political systems (e.g., apartheid) that support the expression of prejudice or aversion in discriminatory practices. The ideology underlying racist practices often includes the idea that humans can be subdivided into distinct groups that are different in their social behavior and innate capacities and that can be ranked as inferior or superior.[1] Racist ideology can become manifest in many aspects of social life. Associated social actions may include nativism, xenophobia, otherness, segregation, hierarchical ranking, supremacism, and related social phenomena.'
ReplyDeleteI dare say Mr. Leon and his supporters show signs of racism in his political rants. He knows better than anyone else and his racist ideology (the Trump voters against the non-Trump voters) are superior in their thinking and knowledge on a worldview basis. They have no trouble distinguishing the color (race) of voters in a certain demographics and seem to think this is OK because they are of the same race. Seriously! This is simply racism, at its worst.
I could go on for several more pages, but nobody has time for that. In short I agree with the first comment made by Pat Hatt. It’s time to let the Andrew Leon’s in this world stew in their own juices. The venom he spews will certainly get him one day. I’m shocked at the people who commented favorable on his site AND yours. Are they serious?
Everyone has a right to their own opinion in their own home, but when that opinion is this toxic it’s best to not go there again. I’ve learned that sadly, in the blogging community popularity is far more important than honesty, loyalty, and true friendship.
Voting, no matter how you do it is a privilege and in the blogging world I have chosen to vote with my feet (or fingers) as in simply staying away from those who are not truly kind, courteous, or my friends.
I do HOWEVER, applaud your willingness to take on this topic. I give you a standing ovation at your willingness to be unpopular and lose a few of those not so friendly friends.
I DO NOT believe you are a racist. for what that may be worth.
FAE, I've always tried to be honest on my blog but sometimes I've tiptoed past certain issues so as not to stir things up too badly. I never wanted to lose followers, but oddly in the case of current situations it's been kind of fun watching some drop off. Wish I knew exactly what it was that made them unfollow, but that's okay.
DeleteIt's probably best to avoid toxic sites (maybe some people are seeing my posts as "toxic"). I am the president of my blog. If I ever associate with Mr. Leon again then he would be like my Mitt Romney. LoL!
Thanks for your exhortations of encouragement.
Lee
First, I voted for Sanders and I admit I'm a crazy old coot!!! hahaha Actually after the last election in 2012, I saw a lot of vitriolic hate-speak from the 'sore losers' as you call them, trashing Obama all over the place. No I don't really like what he's done the past 8 years, and I also understand that a lot of people feel disenfranchised & steamrolled, and Trump seems to be speaking for them. However I find it hard to believe that a billionaire could care less about the poor and middle class, but time will tell.
ReplyDeleteI did a lot of research this fall to see what was true, false, misleading and taken out of context. I've looked at Trump's 100 day plan (which is pretty ambitious if you ask me) and I don't disagree with a lot of it. Right now what I take issue with are his cabinet appointments. Those are the people who scare me. Pence is a horrible choice for VP. My mom joked that she hoped someone would take a shot at Trump and I was like, 'NO! Pence would be WAY worse for human rights!'
I also don't think Trump has been forceful enough telling his radical right wing supporters to stop harassing women and people of colour. But he pitched a hissy fit over the Broadway play people's message to Pence.
So time will tell....there's nothing to say that he'll be reelected in 2020. Four years goes by really fast these days. I just hope we can survive it w/o descending into civil war.
JoJo, I'm an old coot too--I guess that's why I found Sanders entertaining to listen to and he had some interesting things to say. We can only wait to see what Trump will do. So far I think he is staying true to what the people want while maintaining the real business of selecting his team.
DeleteI have a lot of respect for Mike Pence. He is an excellent communicator and I believe he can be trusted to do what is best for the country. Not everyone will agree with everything so we need to adapt.
I'll likely touch upon some of the issues you bring up here in future posts.
Lee
Hey Arlee! 'Tis I, G.B. Miller. Not sure if anyone else is having the same problem, but I unable to comment on your blog with IE11. I can do it just fine with Firefox (which is what I'm using right now).
ReplyDeleteI can access/comment your other one with IE 11 just fine.
I apologize for the interruption but I want to let you know, just in case others were having the same problem
GB, well, I'm no tech guy so I'm not sure how to respond to this. Maybe someone else has an answer.
DeleteLee
Hi Lee.
ReplyDeleteEnjoying your series of "Election fallout " posts very much or as you call this series; "President Trump Acclimation series." I haven't read the blog posts written by Andrew Leon, I'm not in the least interested.There are a few points I would like to make though.
In my humble opinion Mr Trump isn't someone who will put up with slackers during his presidency. If your'e not doing your job but are instead dragging the whole country down with your whining like a an immature child then either pull up your socks or get out. Donald Trump is a businessman and not an idiot, he's in this position to get America out of the hands of the political elite and make it successful again He doesn't believe in political correctness, nor do I.
Labels and accusations are something I've had to live with my whole life. My parents were on contract in Zambia while I was in an all white boys boarding school in South Africa. Zambia had a black president so you can imagine the names I was called and the things that were done to me. That's what racism really is.
Personally, I hope American society grows up and starts getting productive again. The people who have stopped following your blog because of the fact that you voted for Mr Trump should take a good hard look at their reasons for following you in the first place. Don't let this get to you, write it off and move on, you did the right thing.
Friendship and strength my friend Geoff.
Geoff, I'm not letting any of the push back or rejection get to me at all--in fact in a sense it's given me a renew excitement about blogging (though still not like I used to have). I agree with your assessment of Trump. My expectations are that as a businessman Trump will move quickly to get things done and try not to get mired down in the silliness of politics. It will be a new experiment that we don't know how will turn out, but hopefully good things will come of it and lessons will be learned.
DeleteYour racism story is important in my opinion because it shows that racism is not only a U.S. thing with whites against blacks. Racism is a domain of all peoples in all places in all times throughout history. But also, "racist" is a convenient label to demean those of whom one feels a threat or with whom one disagrees. Not the best way to communicate or solve problems.
Lee
Lee, The name branding is craziness. If you don't agree with a liberal then you're "whateverish" in their opinion. All that matters is I know their wrong and it's pointless to argue the fact. I did read the article by Mr. Leon. You handled your commenting well and he did not. From this small sample then I say he's fallen in a sense of security of being more rude than maybe what he normally would be with others with differing opinions. Of course, he might be that way face to face, too. That's the way our society is these days. True change has to come from the heart before we see the difference in the public. The thing that perplexes me is the name calling the Left throws at Trump but there are lots of articles written showing him the direct opposite and still we hear the chants of the Left. All I can do is slap my forehead at the craziness. Oh well, Donald J. Trump is our newly elected President. It's time to move forward and put this petty stuff to bed. Good writing from someone who is a racist and an a$$%#!3. ;)
ReplyDeleteCathy, I'd be surprised if Mr. Leon didn't show at least some modicum of respect if met with face to face. He is probably an interesting conversationalist who might be inclined to be insistent on being right all the time, but he's probably okay. I think we as a society have fallen into a habit of labeling others--sometimes for convenience while at others to insult--and a lot of this labeling comes from the media I think. We hear the same words, often in the same listing order, used by people everywhere and I think this has been part of a media indoctrination. I don't think it's a matter of coincidence by any means.
DeleteLee
Lee, you know Mr. Leon better than me and you could be right about him being an interesting conversationalist. Heck, I don't care if someone likes to think he/she is right in the conversation as long as it all in the spirit of respectful fun to disagree, you know? Sadly, this isn't often the case. The MSM is indoctrinating society with their labels and coined phrases that we innocently pick up verbiage without even knowing it sometimes. I've done it and it wasn't until DH pointed it out to me that I realized how easy some words stick easily. Now, I try to be more careful.
DeleteAlas, discussions about race and racism isn't a happy place for me. My USA-born grandparents were pulled from their California homes and put in the Poston Arizona internment camp. The other half of my family is Hispanic. My great-grandmother didn't speak English, and I know what the common response to that is.
ReplyDeleteBut blanket statements and generalizations don't help anyone. Those are what made people believe that my Japanese grandmother and her young daughter deserved to be locked up.
Loni, in retrospect we can see how terrible the internment camps were, but I suppose it might be understandable how this was accepted at the time for the sake of national security and fears raised by the wars. At the time many of us might have felt far differently about what was done to Japanese Americans than we do now looking back. War can incite fears and paranoia within people.
DeleteLee
Lee: I suggest you ignore schoolyard taunts. Racist isn't really much worse than liberal when you come down to the meaning attached to each by the taunter. Is a white a racist because he or she prefers a white spouse? Racism is bad when it affects public facilities, like bus seating and education, and we've got away from that. We're a global people now, and I think we're accepting that reality. Blacks still find it hard to find acceptance in a country club, but that's no great loss. Most members require a conformity of beliefs that I find snobbish.
ReplyDeleteTrump started most of this name calling and unjustified personal attacks, and now he bleats like a stuck pig when he gets it back. What did he - or you - expect? We heard, during the campaign, many dark threats of what would happen if he lost. I'm putting my opposition on hold for 6 months to give him time to put his administration and program together. That doesn't mean that I'm approving his schoolyard-bully campaign performance.
Jack, I think the labeling goes beyond mere schoolyard taunts. It is a concerted effort to delegitimize Trump and denigrate his supporters. Applying labels to broad swaths of citizenry is not at all constructive when trying to create unity in the nation. Personally, I think "racist" is far worse than "liberal" as one term is an attack on a person's moral fiber as opposed to the other term as a description of a persons political or ideological stance. Attacking ones character is far different than labeling how they lean in what they believe.
DeleteTrump name-called on an individual basis in order to demean his opponents to some degree--they were very pointed and specific attacks. Labeling Trump's voters with serious labels attacking their character because of their vote is very different than candidates attacking each other. And in that instance Trump wasn't the only one calling names--he was always attacked first before he struck back. I recall the first attacks calling Trump a "clown", a "buffoon", and a "reality TV show star". I don't know that Trump ever struck first.
Lee
Lee: You are too close to the forest to see the trees. When Trump and some of his more rabid supporters attacked liberals, they made many inferences against their moral fiber. Being an exiled moderate from the Republican party, I could see this just as I can see that you have been similarly insulted by a Democratic fanatic..
DeleteYou are trying to make a general case out of something that is individual. You have been insulted. In true school yard fashion, you can tell him that he is the true asshole or you can refer to his obvious canine ancestry. Be careful, however, about questioning his mother's pedigree. Dogs don't like that any more than humans, and he could claim such a question as further proof of your racism.
You could also ignore him.
Jack, oh, if we're back to "him", I do ignore him now as far as commenting. I have checked the blog posts in question just to see if anyone from this thread had gone there to comment. For the most part, no, but I was checking from a "marketing" standpoint to see if linking to his site had any effect on his traffic. Essentially a marketing fail from what I can see.
DeleteI don't guess I'll take your suggestion about hitting back on the fellow who inspired a portion of this post. Who knows? We might still kind of be "friends" so I don't want to get overly boorish or I'll be doing something similar to what I'm looking down on him for doing. But your suggestion made me chuckle and left me with a lingering smile. That's always a positive.
Lee
Hi Lee ~ One thing I'm learning is not to engage any person who becomes toxic. The name calling is toxic behavior. I've seen it on both sides; racist, socialist, misogynist, baby killer, libtard, etc. By engaging we give them power and it does shut down communication. Everyone gets defensive. I understand some of the Trump voters just wanted to shake things up. Let's hope it all settles in a positive way. :)
ReplyDeletehttps://meinthemiddlewrites.com/
MLQ, I try to avoid direct engagement with toxic folks, but I do believe in providing education when I can and what I'm hearing everywhere is things that aren't true and those things need to be righted. Explanations might persuade those who are open and intelligent.
ReplyDeleteLee
What I'm sensing is that the divide is so huge that trying to reason and change someone's opinion is next to impossible. This has been at the root of the problem for the past 30 years, at least. Both extremes have ruined it for the rest of us, leaning left or right, who are caught in the middle. That's why I appreciate your sincerity. We need good journalism back again. :(
DeleteMLQ, there is a huge divide that to a great extent I would attribute to continuous media indoctrination. It's not just "good journalism" that needs to come back again, but journalism period--fair and without endless analysis from a biased perspective.
DeleteLee
Lee ~ Yes, yes, yes ........................
DeleteSorry I haven't been here but I have had a lot of crappola recently. You know, when I am looking at my best friend dealing with. Huge emotional crisis, my health not in the best shape and my dr being downright rude, my one pussy cat suddenly died and my mom fading away, all the turmoil of the politicians and who won and who didn't seems like a Hill of beans. Now that being said...I hate bullying no matter who is being bullied and verbal bullying is not needed and it sounds like you got hit by this. I have not read MR. Leon's post but when it comes to verbal bashing, it's just not needed. Do I think Trump is a bully? Yes because of the number of interviews and documentaries I have watched regarding him. I don't believe the news/media because they are slanted and they are there to sell. I do trust my gut and do believe he is a Bully but a racist? I can't say that because I don't see that from him but his ideas being out the dark side of the population which is sad. My dad would be considered a big racist if he were alive today from his old fashioned way of talking and some of his views made me groan and they were much worse than what Trump has said but my dad was the first person to get up from his chair and offer a seat to an African American and an Asian person. I have seen him do it. What he said and what he did were 2 different things. My cousin, who lives in Michigan is a big Trump fan and dislikes Obama with a passion yet he is one the sweetest people you would want to know. What I found funny and it did put a smile on my face is when you stated in your above comment that someone who may be for Clinton is leftist leaning. I consider myself democratic in thinking but hardly leftist and abhor Communist views because it is scary. My mom lived under fascism and then Communism and she was lucky to escape so I am not leftist just liberal. Amazing how politics can bring out so much negativity but also can bring great discussions and, if one is mature, agree to disagree. When one is passionate about ones views, nothing can shake them from that view and that is aok in my book because we need passion with a cool head. I enjoy reading your posts even if I don't agree but isn't that great? It makes for great conversation.
ReplyDeleteBirgit, sorry to hear about all the difficulties you've been facing, but life can get that way sometimes and then it can get good later. That great roller coaster of life can be as harrowing as it can sometimes be fun.
DeleteI don't see Andrew Leon's posting as bullying since he didn't name me and he's not directly harassing me in any way. He's just stating his own misguided (in my view) opinion even though he is stating it with unnecessary harshness. His arguments could certainly be made in a better way and without the repetition of the typical "party" line.
Actions tell far more than words. My father was one of the most magnanimous and unbiased people I've known though in our time he'd probably be criticized as a racist and a bigot. I know he would have supported Donald Trump because of some of the values represented by the opposing side.
It has been a great conversation in this discussion thread and I thank you for your contribution to it.
Lee
My dad voted for Trump because he was voting against Clinton. I'm pretty sure he's not a racist because his son-in-law (my husband) does not share our pasty skin color and they get along fabulously. So there. A counter-example!
ReplyDeletePeople vote for candidates for many reasons or maybe just for one reason (which might be a vote against the other guy). To say all who vote for Trump share all his views and approve of all the things he's done in the past would be silly. I think people are in shock and are having a tough time processing what happened.
Tamara, I think the Trump's views have been misrepresented by the opposition and the media. I could see beyond the chatter and look into the man, his family, and the words he actually spoke. People are in shock because they weren't actually listening beyond the false chatter and using critical thinking. Most voting and support for candidates was reactionary based on what the chatter was saying.
DeleteLee
Love that you have the guts to address this issue. Back during Obama's first term I went to a book club meeting for the first time. Politics came up and everyone shared that they had voted for Obama. I shared that I hadn't I was immediately attacked and called a racist. I laughed and said, "Ladies, you obviously don't know I'm married to a black man and have been for thirty years. And guess what? He's republican and didn't vote for Obama either" I could see their mouths twitching trying to come up with counter comments but couldn't. Needless to say I didn't go back. These women didn't even know me and yet felt they could call me racist. What I'm finding is that liberals really don't understand economics or how the government is run. They are motivated by "feelings" for issues and candidates and the media has given them words to spew at conservatives. I find it humorous but sad that all posts on FB are made up of hysteria about what Trump will do and they pour their "feelings" into these phoney news stories. I wish I could come up with even one word that would rile them as much as, racist, homophobe, but then I'd be guilty as them.
ReplyDeleteEm, your example is sad, but so common I think. You pin-pointed the problem with the "feelings" observation. The liberal left is often quick to emote before thinking things through rationally if they do think at all. The left is good at coming up with demeaning words; conservatives don't do as well with the name-calling.
DeleteLee