Six years ago I was on my blog talking about similar things as I am discussing in my recent posts. For today I had mentioned that I was going to discuss racism. I'll get to that on Monday I suppose. In this current post I'm going to participate in another Flashback Friday...
Flashback Friday, introduced by Michael G. D’Agostino of A Life Examined is a monthly blogfest, occurring on the last Friday. Michael’s directive: “Republish an old post of yours that maybe didn’t get enough attention, or that you’re really proud of, or you think is still relevant etc.” Please add your link to the list at the end of the post if you’d like to join in.
THE POST I'VE CHOSEN FOR THIS MONTH FIRST APPEARED ON TOSSING IT OUT ON Thursday August 12, 2010-- TO SEE THE ORIGINAL COMMENTS TO THAT POST YOU CAN CLICK ON THE TITLE BELOW TO BE TAKEN TO THE ORIGINAL POST...
What Does Immigration Reform Look Like?
The immigration controversy is big here in California and Arizona. In fact, the issue of immigration is one of the major issues that Americans are most concerned about after things like the economy and unemployment. The immigration law that was passed by Arizona has caused a furor among liberals with cries of racism and invasion of constitutional rights. There are many calls for immigration reform.
What does immigration reform look like?
As usual words have been charged and falsehoods created to help raise emotions. So before we start the debate let's clarify the issues and define the wording properly. The issue is not immigration. The real issue is illegal aliens coming into this country to establish themselves without going through the legal channels and often having no true respect for the values that are the foundation of the United States. Letting the floodgates of immigrants flow across the borders unchecked has led to more drug opportunists, gang members, human traffickers, and terrorists to come into the country blended into the horde coming here to take advantage of our great country. We are allowing a dangerous trend to occur.
These immigrants are putting a burden upon our law enforcement, social services, educational systems, and the job market. Standards are being lowered in our society. Schools are suffering as the education process is slowed for those with advanced learning potential who are held back by non-English speakers and those with a lower quest for education. Recent statistics in California show the dropout rate at 46% with a whopping majority to be Hispanics.
There have been indications of movements such as La Raza and Azatlan that would like nothing better than for certain parts of the United States to revert to Mexican rule. Mexican flags and those of other Latin American countries are becoming common sights as disrespect for the flag of the USA grows.
The furor raised by the Arizona law regarding immigration is based on a sham fueled by liberal and Hispanic activist propaganda. The Arizona law merely states that the police will actively enforce federal law. What a novel concept! The police enforce law? Where did they get such an idea?
I don't like what's happening. And before you suggest that I am racist or anti-immigrant, keep in mind that my wife is from Latin American. She and her entire family came to the United States through legal channels, completing all of the necessary processes and legal papers over many years to eventually become proud citizens of the United States. Her daughter and nieces and nephews have been honor students and college graduates and have gotten good jobs. They did it right and I have no problem with anyone who wants to take this approach to immigration.
If people aren't going to respect our laws of citizenship, why would we expect that they would respect any other laws that were inconvenient for them? The way I see it employers who are hiring illegals need to be penalized and the anchor baby clause of the constitution needs to be amended.
What to do with all of the aliens who are currently living in the United States illegally? There are estimates of anywhere from twelve to twenty million. How should these people be handled? What about future immigration? Are you happy with the flood of illegals or are you against it? What is the upside?
Great post to read Lee, that was the year of the Great first A to Z Challenge.
ReplyDeleteHas your views changed since the first time you wrote this?
Yvonne.
Yvonne, my views are essentially the same. This post seems to foreshadow the rise in popularity of Donald Trump.
DeleteLee
The only thing I find rather amusing is people whine about some of them taking jobs, yet they do the crappy jobs that such whiners wouldn't want to do anyway.
ReplyDeleteAs for the gun and human and drug traffickers and such, can toss them all in a deep dark hole and leave them there, American or not.
Pat, I think there's always someone in this country who will do those "jobs that no one wants" and this narrative is one perpetuated by the pro-immigrant flood camp.
DeleteLee
The wealthy people who hire illegal immigrants for slave wages are part of the problem, too, I think. Then again, most Americans aren't interested in the jobs these illegals are doing. The criminal element is a whole other problem. It's a real "Catch 22" type situation.
ReplyDeleteDebbie D, wealthy people and employers who hire the undocumented workers need to be held accountable for their hiring. I think a good many Americans don't want to do "dirty work" and tough physical labor because they've gotten caught up in the wrong narratives. There are many solutions other than just accepting that we have to rely on illegal immigration to fulfill these worker roles. The guest worker programs are good ideas, but they need to be enforced. Mexico (and other Latin American countries) definitely need to crack down on the criminal elements in their countries, but so does the U.S. Greater cooperation among the nations needs to come into play.
DeleteLee
There is a guest worker program in Canada, which has apparently been discussed as a model for the U.S., in the past. Definitely worth looking into, I'd say. Cracking down on criminals should definitely be a priority for all nations.
DeleteDebbie D, guest worker status has been a policy of the U.S. since WW2. If not enforced properly then the policy doesn't work. Especially for seasonal agricultural work, the guest program accommodates for many of those jobs that Americans supposedly will not do.
DeleteLee
It is NOT that Americans won't do the jobs illegal Mexicans are currently doing. Americans were doing those jobs BEFORE the influx of illegals took that part of the job market over, right? Didn't that "dirty work" always get done by Americans in the 1930s, '40s, '50s, and '60s?
DeleteBut Americans will not do those jobs for those LOW WAGES that the greedy-assed employers are able to get away with paying to swarms of illegal aliens who are desperate to take almost any job at almost any preposterously low wage.
If employers who hire illegals were fined up the butt -- maybe even having licenses to operate cancelled for certain lengths of times -- and if illegals were actively rounded up and sent home, the immorally low pay for the dirty work would have to be raised to the level of "a living wage", and then Americans would re-enter that part of the work force.
This stuff ain't rocket science. It's just common sense -- which hasn't been common since Uncle Scam took over control of education in this country.
It makes me mad.
~ D-FensDogG
'Loyal American Underground'
STMcC, I don't just blame the government programs, but even more I blame an attitude that seems to have descended upon the citizenry that we all need college educations and tough labor is beneath the dignity of Americans so therefore must be done by those "lowlier" than we are. Same goes for those factory jobs being shipped off to other countries. A living wage is important, but on the other side an outrageously high union-type wage is economically nuts.
DeleteOne solution that might be considered is a service type approach after high school and before college. For a year or two HS graduates should do hard work if they are able--those grunt jobs that are now being done by illegal laborers. I worked hard at a sweat-inducing labor job to put myself through college. Now the poor snowflakes aren't expected to work hard to get what they want. They'll protest racism and social injustice while they turn their heads from the laborers picking their fruit and digging the ditches.
Employers must be held accountable, but all of us need to bear some responsibility as well.
I'm mad too! Work that is necessary has always gotten done in this country, but we as a society tend to look down on the ones doing the work--or we don't even think about that work that someone somewhere is doing.
Lee
It kind of goes hand-in-hand with this huge push to make sure everyone has a college degree. It's as though kids are told from the get-go that they're "better" than a job as a laborer. Dad always told me he wouldn't care if we chose to be ditch-diggers, but he'd want us to be the best ditch-diggers we could be. Growing up, my friends' fathers were house painters, carpet installers, plumbers, carpenters etc. and we didn't look down on them; we admired them and wanted to be like them.
DeleteI don't know if you're familiar with Mike Rowe, the guy who hosts "Dirty Jobs." He's very outspoken about the topic of "college after high school" and says we need to stop pushing kids to get a college degree, because not every job requires one and not every kid wants to go to college, and there are many who have no idea what they would major in if they went. This country sorely needs people to do the dirty work, and there are more than a few kids who would love doing it, but they're discouraged from it. So we have kids taking up space in universities and running up enormous debt who don't want to be there while the jobs they would be willing and able to do go to illegals. It makes no sense whatsoever.
John, the other day I heard it well said that all of this college educating is just creating more professors and college grads living in parents' basements. Vocational training and apprenticeships is where the money is going to be in the future.
DeleteThe way I see it, college is kind of like government--they make the institution bigger in order to perpetuate itself.
Lee
Can't top the first three comments. They raised points that need to be considered in such a debate. Another is how far does, "Treat the stranger well, for you were a stranger in the land of Egypt" go?
ReplyDeleteCW, strangers should be treated well, but they are not above the law no matter what their circumstances are. Their seems to be a message in their home countries to come to America and we'll take care of you. That message needs to change with more of an emphasis on America wanting talent and people who will contribute to lifting the country up and not tearing it down. America no longer has the respect that it deserves.
DeleteLee
First, since when is it "racist" to enforce the laws of the nation? The immigration laws were written years ago and amended many times since. If enforcing them is wrong, it's the job of Congress to change them or rewrite them, though I doubt that would have occurred to the lot that's taking up space in the Capitol Building now, who seem content to bitch about enforcing laws they (and THEY ALONE) have the power to change.
ReplyDeleteSecond, no one objects to immigration. But dashing across the border and dodging immigration officials is not immigration; it's breaking and entering. Sadly, it's practically encouraged by business leaders who want the cheap labor. I worked at one such company, as a supervisor. My whole crew were in this country illegally, earning as much as they could and sending it home to Mexico, and believe me, "as much as they could" wasn't a whole lot of money. I admired their work ethic, but it didn't change the fact that they were here illegally. On a couple of occasions, INS busted the place and took all but a couple of the workers, and we'd have to shut down. The guy who owned the place didn't care; the fine was a small price to pay, and considered a cost of doing business.
And, while I'm on the subject: it's interesting that INS, which stood for "Immigration and Naturalization Service," has been merged with Customs and "naturalization" has been dropped from the name. The object of people who come to the US intending to stay should be naturalization.
Nearly everyone who lives in this country is descended from someone who immigrated from somewhere else. It's how the US was built. While we were cleaning out my in-laws' building, we found a copy of Mary's grandfather's entrance papers from when he moved here from Lithuania. He was required to swear under oath that he wasn't here to overthrow the government, he would obey the laws of this nation, he had to tell them where he was going, etc. "Fast-tracking" people who entered this country illegally is a slap in the face to people who came here legally. And for people to demand that the US observe sharia law, or for them to tell the US to hand the southwestern US back to Mexico and "gringos go home," is an attempt at overthrowing the government.
Shortly after 9/11, Mary and I were in Chicago for my cousin's wedding. To get to the church, we drove through West Rogers Park, a neighborhood that was predominantly Jewish when I was growing up and is now home to people from all over the Middle East and southern Asia. I was amazed: everyone, regardless of where they were from, was getting along with everyone else, and in nearly every storefront there was an American flag. They were Jews, Muslims, and Hindus, they were from different countries, but it was as though they were saying, "This is our country, and the people who attacked the World Trade Center et al. attacked us, too. Regardless of where we came from, regardless of what God (or gods) we worship, we're Americans now." Somehow, "assimilation" has become a bad word.
I think people who are in this country illegally should be given a choice: integrate yourselves into this nation and become citizens, or get out. No doubt there are people who wanted to come here legally and couldn't because of quotas (apparently they're still around), but again, it's Congress that made those rules, and it's Congress that needs to change them if they think they're unjust. Every other nation on Earth has immigration laws (once, Immigration Canada was ready to send me back because I lacked the proper documents to enter the country--hey, until NAFTA, you could show your driver's license) and no one complains when they enforce them...
John, you make a lot of excellent points here and there's no need for me to add to any of these.
DeleteThere are places around where I live that one could almost imagine being in another country. Assimilation doesn't seem to be an issue anymore and it's more of an accept the incoming cultures and get used to changing your own life so they can adapt better.
Once when I was in my local Walmart I noticed that the announcements over the intercom were in Spanish. It was like I was no longer in the America that I had grown up in. No more learning the language and the customs, now it's fundamentally altering the U.S. from within.
Lee
I've always been against illegal immigration. The first thing that has to happen is that anchor baby loophole has to be closed. I'm all for deportation, esp. illegals who are criminals. My family came to this country legally and never insisted that others speak their language. I'm a first gen American on my dad's side and 2nd on my mom's. And despite my dad and his brother obtaining citizenship, their sister was always denied. It never once occurred to either of them to tell her to come into the USA anyway.
ReplyDeleteJoJo, the anchor baby loophole is an enticement for pregnant women to come to this country to have their babies. This law might have made sense when it was first put into place, but now with travel so easy it makes no sense to allow this. Immigration laws have to be enforced or, as Trump says, we don't have a country.
DeleteLee
The way my grandfather came into this country (from Czechoslovakia) and the way your wife and her family did it is the way it should be done for everyone: legally!
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to illegals who are criminals and those wanting to cause harm to this great country, they need to be sent packing.
Michele at Angels Bark
Michele, I would never consider going into another country illegally, but then again I don't know what all the circumstances are for the people who come. Still I think they need to follow law just like I'm expected to follow law.
DeleteLee
Interesting post and comments Lee. Here in South Africa about 10% 12% are 'foreigners' many illegally with no papers. It's such a complicated story .. but thank you, this was interesting to read.
ReplyDeleteSusan S, immigration can get messy with stories that can have many sides, but still the laws of any country should be followed especially if one is going there to resettle.
DeleteLee
This has been difficult. My mom came to this country and became a citizen and she came when there was an influx of Germans, polish etc.. coming to Canada in the 1950's. I see quite a few people, from immigrants to the average Joe, sort of speak. Many people, mostly young, would never even think about picking fruit, grapes etc... when I told them to look for a job there, they outright told me they wouldn't"lower" themselves to take a Job like this. So many immigrants work on the farms because they will take the jobs that many young Canadians don't want. I see this often but, in the same breath, I know the employers would rather hire the immigrants because it is cheaper th. hiring someone born here. Now, these are people who have gone through the correct channels to be legal here. I know I once had an illegal immigrant I. My office......an American! Hahaaaa I'm not kidding, this story is true. We mostly have people from China, Jamaica, Columbia coming here and if they take the jobs others don't want, good for them. We do not have the same issues you have and, depending what state one lives in, one would see more crappola than in another state. It's a tough situation to delve into without being called a racist but if your state is being overrun as compared to a state closer to our land, thenmaybe some conditions need to be in place. It just gets tricky to make sure the truly innocent are not hurt as a result.
ReplyDeleteBirgit, following immigration laws does not equate being racist. If the laws are in place it's everyone's duty to either follow them or get them changed if they don't seem right. But until they are changed, the laws should be followed.
DeleteLee
That oft-repeated "they do the jobs Americans don't want" might actually be true. We need to do some retraining on things like work ethic, taking a hard job and doing it well while in high school and college, and working instead of staying on unemployment until it runs out. Something has been lost in our tradition of hard work as a road to success.
ReplyDeletePatricia, you're exactly work. Somehow hard work is seen by many as being beneath us--something that someone else needs to do. I never got any hand-out when I was in college. I worked hard to earn my expenses for the school year.
DeleteLee
Okay, I’ll poke the bear, just because…
ReplyDeleteI recently visited some family members who are not citizens of the US. They live on lands that maps place in the US. They have no ancestors who VOLUNTARILY breed with anyone from any other place on the world.
They aren’t immigrants.
But they aren’t legal.
They do not wish to declare loyalty to … oh there’s no nice way to put it, so I’ll just go with “the conquering demolishers.”
They do not use American health care. At all. Ever. (And look down on those who leave the group and do use it to survive. We won’t get into that.) They don’t use roads. They receive no money from the government. They don’t attend your schools. They live off the grid.
They don’t respect most of your laws. They break the hunting and fishing ones all the time. Which is why they have to live like ghosts. But that’s okay with them, because they consider it better than bowing to those who betrayed their ancestors.
Technically, they could be captured and sent to jail (at which point they would be your tax burden). Or dropped off far from their home at the joke of a reservation. (Their words.)
These are people who are cut off from the trade routes that no longer exist. The normal migration patterns that preserved nature have to be weighed against hiding from Johnny Law.
It’s just the life of the losing party.
The last refugees who refuse to become someone they aren’t.
I forget what my point was here.