tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post7243152008850273357..comments2024-03-28T02:15:06.910-07:00Comments on Tossing It Out: Profanity: Where Do You Draw the Line? (A Guest Post from Author Bridget Straub)Arlee Birdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-8517295744500858842012-12-01T16:31:43.193-08:002012-12-01T16:31:43.193-08:00I can handle it in a book or a movie, but it has t...I can handle it in a book or a movie, but it has to be minimal. When characterizing real people, I suppose a writer feels the need to represent how people really are. <br /><br />Because my life is fairly tame, I don't encounter people cursing all day every day, so I tend to limit art and literature that is way out there, too.<br /><br />It's interesting how some people will curse when they hardly know you. My "new" excersize teacher drops the f-bomb, not even considering that I don't and might not want to hear it. I was thinking of inviting a "church friend" to come with me, but if she heard exercise lady's mouth, she probably wouldn't come back. lol Sooo... I'm not going to invite her. People don't even realize what it is costing them at times.Anitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180243708565855383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-14974461387019368262012-11-30T22:23:13.871-08:002012-11-30T22:23:13.871-08:00Bridget -- Thank you for getting the conversation ...Bridget -- Thank you for getting the conversation started here.<br /><br />And thanks for all the great comments that have been left on this post. You have helped guide me in presenting my own post on this topic which will be coming soon.<br /><br />Lee<br />Arlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-6164054841529287522012-11-30T19:56:03.756-08:002012-11-30T19:56:03.756-08:00I don't use bad language. I have never used i...I don't use bad language. I have never used it in my entire life. I've never written it either. Is there a place for it? I'm not really sure. I think there are some movies where it seems to fit, but only as a reflection of reality. Other times I'm thinking "man, that just sounds stupid". I'm not offended by it, but I don't want to hear a lot of it, and I really don't want to hear it in front of children and the elderly.Mitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02125633934727204568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-28709847161160690162012-11-30T00:04:10.362-08:002012-11-30T00:04:10.362-08:00I find that swearing stands out more in writing th...I find that swearing stands out more in writing than it does in general conversation so I prefer for it to be used sparingly ie when it suits the situation and character and any other word would sound stupid/fake. <br /><br />I had be particularly mindful of this when writing The Big Smoke because it's aimed at teens and I think you can get away with even less with that audience - not that teens themselves mind so much, more the gatekeepers. Cally Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313803959936813426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-60731462033527530282012-11-29T16:42:17.749-08:002012-11-29T16:42:17.749-08:00I was raised not to swear at all. We weren't e...I was raised not to swear at all. We weren't even allowed to say "gosh" or "golly" - even though we loved Gomer Pyle. In movies my parents didn't object to "clean cussing" but nothing vulgar was acceptable to watch. I still remember the first real "cussing" I heard on television - it was on Simon and Simon when one of the brothers was kidnapped.<br /><br />That said, in reading I tend to not be bothered by it if it really fits in the book. I recently read a book that I felt the vulgarity used was forced - thereby making it stick out for shock value.<br /><br />My kids don't think too much of it, and even my 13 yo says she thinks her books should have "some", because it makes it more realistic.<br /><br />For me? I can't imagine every using it in my writing. My kids think when I say "crap" that I'm cussing . . .Sheila Silerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15284982582798743408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-63970301776554285562012-11-29T11:55:31.697-08:002012-11-29T11:55:31.697-08:00I am a "by the seat of my pants" writer ...I am a "by the seat of my pants" writer so it's really quite simple for me. It if was in the first revision, I keep the profanity. It "fit" the character. It came naturally. I don't add in profanity.<br /><br />I'm not easily offended, though. I don't care what language you use. It doesn't bother me. I just want it to mesh with the character. I don't want the ex-SWAT member saying Gosh darn and I don't want the kindergarten teacher saying Fucking hell in front of her class. That's not natural. It doesn't feel right.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06335174308646893781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-47748263251401925372012-11-29T11:43:27.770-08:002012-11-29T11:43:27.770-08:00The rule of swearing in writing, to me, is the sam...The rule of swearing in writing, to me, is the same as the rules of anything else in writing: if it's what would really happen, do it. Keeping writing real is part of what makes the world inside a book easy to relate to. I have a character who is a Navy SEAL, and while he has a certain quirk that keeps him from cussing like a sailor ALL the time (pun intended), as an above poster pointed out, there are some cases in which, "Holy moly," just isn't a realistic response from that type of character.colbymarshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14056535503422186623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-79191741128003306002012-11-29T10:05:14.754-08:002012-11-29T10:05:14.754-08:00Christina
Why Canadian? Do they swear more or less...Christina<br />Why Canadian? Do they swear more or less?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-54112455741323142582012-11-29T08:15:13.664-08:002012-11-29T08:15:13.664-08:00My first thought was - depends if your audience is...My first thought was - depends if your audience is Canadian or not. But I have always wondered who determined certain words are bad. It's so silly. I think some words have excellent shock value and reveal a character with a certain clarity. I think bad writing should be the offence, not language.CLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285667433095434961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-19094546576640023082012-11-29T07:35:15.603-08:002012-11-29T07:35:15.603-08:00In fiction, I believe it totally depends on the ch...In fiction, I believe it totally depends on the character and situation. An Army sergeant and a nun would most likely react and speak very differently in a stressful situation. I don't shy away from writing profanity if it fits the character and story.<br /><br />In real life, I may have a potty mouth at times. Sigh.<br /><br />Hi, Arlee!Carol Kilgorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03745686632918324803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-85267373017303611042012-11-29T02:32:15.172-08:002012-11-29T02:32:15.172-08:00Profanity only bothers me if it's inappropriat...Profanity only bothers me if it's inappropriate. I have used it myself when necessary, in my writing and in my life!liz younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16289501717229347872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-15417777174429249672012-11-28T22:40:59.493-08:002012-11-28T22:40:59.493-08:00For me, profanity in writing doesn't bother me...For me, profanity in writing doesn't bother me but it has to fit the character and the story. As soon as it starts sounding forced or becomes gratuitous, I get turned off. Elise Fallsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14734537117333738468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-18764359337496432892012-11-28T22:20:30.499-08:002012-11-28T22:20:30.499-08:00Our speech choices as people are totally different...Our speech choices as people are totally different than those we make for our characters. Certainly, characters vary widely, so of course their speech patterns must, also. Imagine how flat a story containing characters who all sound alike would be. Boring! On the other hand,using cussing as a sole mechanism to establish traits for a character is also boring.<br /><br />Many of my characters are real potty mouths.<br />Personally, I am usually not.<br />But, I don't judge someone who chooses differently, unless they are choosing to do so around my kids. gina valleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057006078790933058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-63873280109398526992012-11-28T18:08:13.516-08:002012-11-28T18:08:13.516-08:00First of all, I am 53, and anyone who is at least ...First of all, I am 53, and anyone who is at least as old as I am KNOWS DAMN GOOD AND WELL that people use profanity more now - both in private and in public - than they did three or four decades ago. Anyone who says differently is either too young to know or is just not very attuned to dialogue around them.<br /><br />Where I have worked for the last couple months, there are some women in their 30s who routinely drop the F-bomb in the company lunch room, and no one thinks twice about it. That kind of language was rarely if EVER used in the workplace back in the '80s and even early '90s.<br /><br />So, yes, American society has DEFINITELY loosened up about profanity in the last 30 years or so. <br /><br />I myself DO use profanity, but wish I used less. However, I am selective about WHERE I use it. I NEVER use it around children, and rarely use it around senior citizens.<br /><br />That said, Hell and Damn are like salt and pepper to me; I generally season my language liberally with them. And in casual conversations with friends (and occasionally even on my blog) I will drop heavier profanity - Sh!t pretty regularly, the F-bomb occasionally. <br /><br />What I NEVER do - whether speaking or writing - is take the Lord's Name in vain. No G**-damnit for me! On the exceedingly rare times when it does slip out of my mouth in a moment of great anger, I feel guilty about it for weeks and will even pray for forgiveness. (It IS breaking one of God's 'Ten COMMANDMENTS', you know?) Anytime I hear someone around me say "G**-damnit" it nearly literally has the effect of "nails on a chalkboard" to me.<br /><br />I once wrote a gritty urban story as a screenplay - before I found Christ - and I was rather proud of myself that I'd managed to make the alcoholics, the pimps, the prostitutes, and the punks seem realistic while only dropping the F-bomb twice in the WHOLE story! <br /><br />Unfortunately, I also took the Lord's Name in vain about every fourth page. <br /><br />If I were going to rewrite that screenplay today, I wouldn't hesitate to remove every single G**-damnit and replace them all with a "f**k it". <br /><br />I don't mind some profanity used in a realistic story, but when it is used to excess (as it often is), it bothers me. The movie 'Raging Bull' was pretty much ruined for me due to the ridiculous amount of F-bombs. <br /><br />There's a time and a place for it, but the degree to which "every word goes, anywhere in public" today is really sad, and is just one of many indicators illustrating how far our society has fallen in regards to decency. <br /><br />~ D-FensDogg<br />'Loyal American Underground'Stephen T. McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00249125637725791567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-76308355958565382142012-11-28T15:49:42.591-08:002012-11-28T15:49:42.591-08:00I don't mind profanity if it fits a character....I don't mind profanity if it fits a character. On the other hand there is nothing worse than a character that sounds like a grade schooler trying to use grown up words. It has to fit. And by the way, the text color on that dead salmon background color is hell on the eyes! Still, love your blog though. Abihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06711672398599480771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-81773630353487306662012-11-28T15:49:15.681-08:002012-11-28T15:49:15.681-08:00The year I worked auto salvage was the year I lear...The year I worked auto salvage was the year I learned how not to cuss. All the guys around me dropped the f-bomb with every sentence, and I quickly realized that people who talk do not sound smart.<br /><br />I almost never cuss and almost never put anything like it in my books.L. Diane Wolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06425864276166334896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-80303617678245802592012-11-28T14:43:20.835-08:002012-11-28T14:43:20.835-08:00I think swearing is not offensive if it fits the c...I think swearing is not offensive if it fits the character and situation. Writers shouldn't be censored for that kind of thing, but I don't want every other word in the novel to be a swear word either. That would turn me off.<br /><br />I don't use swear words in my writing, however, I am using them sparingly in my current WIP when the situation calls for it.<br /><br />Very interesting subject to think about.Sunnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12671891696662548892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-64714147400138897732012-11-28T14:36:55.398-08:002012-11-28T14:36:55.398-08:00Language doesn't bother me, except when it'...Language doesn't bother me, except when it's used in a way that's meant to hurt people. I don't care if someone says *@#$ when they drop something on their toe, but I don't want to be CALLED a *%$#. <br /><br />I don't think any writer should ever censor themselves. If you don't use it, fine, but if you FEEL like using it, then you should go with the flow. Kelly Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01752857506190488860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-29528729463953041172012-11-28T12:13:07.515-08:002012-11-28T12:13:07.515-08:00This is a constant issue with me. Of course, I wri...This is a constant issue with me. Of course, I write both MG and YA, so there's a huge difference between the two with respect to language. I use nothing even close to profanity in my MG books. "Heck" "Rats" is about as profane it gets. <br />In my YA I have to have some realistic language, but it's definitely character driven. Profanity isn't included unless it's absolutely necessary to carry the story or to develop the character. <br /><br />To avoid language I don't think is appropriate, I often let actions take over. "Flipped him the bird" can replace the word. Or I'll go for respelling, "Friggin." Again, this happens because the character demands it happen.<br /><br />Great post, Lee.cleemckenziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15456109243453726483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-82612209103605034092012-11-28T09:59:45.058-08:002012-11-28T09:59:45.058-08:00Using swear words in writing?
Only when necessary...Using swear words in writing?<br /><br />Only when necessary, and it must used for the purposes of realism. I don't get offended by most swear words, usually only the ones that denigrate certain segments of society.<br /><br />If it fits the character, it should be used. There's nothing worse than watering down your prose to suit the 'general public'.<br /><br />Example: men working on their cars swear more than one would think, (just sayin').D.G. Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213237734772028645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-87185329033422294612012-11-28T09:31:12.575-08:002012-11-28T09:31:12.575-08:00I think it's a fine line to walk and any time ...I think it's a fine line to walk and any time you swear in a novel you run the risk of offending someone. That being said, novels shouldn't be comfort food.Johanna Garthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515478890074610814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-89807458979991757362012-11-28T09:12:53.023-08:002012-11-28T09:12:53.023-08:00This is great. I love what is being said and that ...This is great. I love what is being said and that everyone can be so honest. I too hate it when shows, movies books, etc. use swear words just to be rough and edgy. It comes off as crass and lazy. The character of Marny Ottwiler is going through some very trying times but the overall tone of the book is funny.<br />Thanks for all of the discussion. I can't wait to check back later and read some more. I'm definitly awake now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-16980654624826852302012-11-28T08:50:27.355-08:002012-11-28T08:50:27.355-08:00People swear a lot more in public now than they di...People swear a lot more in public now than they did when I was kid. They don't seem to care who is around - tots, grandmas... that I find a little sad.<br /><br />In books and other media it all depends on the plot and character, though when all they do is swear, it does turn me off.Southpawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539290964546504171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-24786178771890408172012-11-28T07:46:55.529-08:002012-11-28T07:46:55.529-08:00Personally, I don't really swear. I honestly c...Personally, I don't really swear. I honestly can't remember the last time I did unless it was the last fight I had with my wife (big fight), and that would have been years ago. My wife does swear but not excessively. My kids fall back on "poop" as their swear word. Yes, seriously. (It makes me want to laugh every time my daughter says "what the poop!")<br /><br />All of that to say that I mostly stay away from swearing in books that I want to be accessible to kids. Some new studies have shown that the connections we form with characters from books are as strong as the connections we form with our real live friends. Therefore, if a beloved character swears, a child reader is more likely to also pick up swearing.<br />Which is not to say it's not non-existent in my writing, but it's not in "everyday" usage. When I get around to writing my first adult oriented work, that all may change.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-39255844729317399262012-11-28T07:44:52.937-08:002012-11-28T07:44:52.937-08:00I really like Nicki's comment.I really like Nicki's comment.Suzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07908805179119217608noreply@blogger.com