tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post2922152150850700479..comments2024-03-18T11:59:18.128-07:00Comments on Tossing It Out: Is It Better To Be "Nice" Or Honest? : Guest Hijacker Andrew LeonArlee Birdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-79550203483326558232012-12-31T23:44:17.104-08:002012-12-31T23:44:17.104-08:00I did have to give a 3 out of 5 stars review once,...I did have to give a 3 out of 5 stars review once, and it was a book a blogger friend had written. I think she's a good writer of course, but I had to be honest about the book. Thankfully I really was able to say there was a lot of good stuff about the book, which there was. But it was quite nerve-wracking putting the review up. She has had a lot of 5 star reviews though, so I don't feel as bad now.Trishahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16927558937796802496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-57680278118339357952012-07-19T16:49:04.396-07:002012-07-19T16:49:04.396-07:00Todd: I suppose, then, it really comes down to def...Todd: I suppose, then, it really comes down to defining your relationships. And how to deal with refusing to review a book from a friend that has written a bad book, especially if you've favorably reviewed other friends' books. Sure, you're not putting a bad review online, but that refusal is going to damage the relationship just the same.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-85017790728101953802012-07-19T14:54:53.810-07:002012-07-19T14:54:53.810-07:00Great post, I am in the group that won't do pu...Great post, I am in the group that won't do publish a bad review for someone I have a relationship with. I have no issue doing an honest review for any other book, and if I like the book my friend wrote I am happy to help him out with a review. I agree that reviews need to have integrity, but I am not going to tube my friend's book launch with a bad one, I'll leave that for someone else to do. I know I would feel hurt if someone I considered a friend did that to me. Maybe I would deserve it if I didn't do my due diligence before sending the book out, but I do think that loyalty is worth something too.Todd R Moodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07833210960706853909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-7291482337963515762012-07-17T08:20:53.033-07:002012-07-17T08:20:53.033-07:00Bill: There are some very objective measurements f...Bill: There are some very objective measurements for writing, such as grammar. It's not an opinion whether someone has made grammar errors or not; they have or they haven't. The only thing that makes that questionable is that not everyone can see those errors, just like not everyone can do algebra. This does not make it subjective. From that standpoint, I'm not talking about the "rules of writing."<br /><br />Once a person has put his/her book out for public consumption, it does the potential audience a huge disservice to only send negative reviews privately. Our goal here is for the public to buy our works, not form an insular critique circle. If the author has stepped out and put his/her work up for public consumption, the reviews should also be available for public consumption.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-87899750831004684682012-07-17T06:21:48.826-07:002012-07-17T06:21:48.826-07:00Even when you're being honest, you need to rem...Even when you're being honest, you need to remember that your review is yours alone--it's one person's opinion, not a universal truth. You may consider yourself well-read and know the established do's and don't's of fiction writing, and you may point out where an author violated this or that rule, but other readers may love the book as is. Separately, I feel that if a reviewer is specifically approached by an author, the reviewer can either decline outright, or read the book and then make one of two choices: review it honestly and positively, or give the author a "private" negative review, which the author can use as either feedback to work further on the book or allow the reviewer to post anyway, in the interest of objectivity and credibility.Bill Cokashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16100840155626191109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-15584317223668565782012-07-12T14:58:18.764-07:002012-07-12T14:58:18.764-07:00Great post and very informative and great hijack p...Great post and very informative and great hijack posting Lee. Going to catch the rest.Gossip_Grlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06603645371306284338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-5134794730900842652012-07-12T11:21:42.141-07:002012-07-12T11:21:42.141-07:00nutschell: Thanks! I do my best.nutschell: Thanks! I do my best.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-2619309553101078722012-07-12T11:21:11.874-07:002012-07-12T11:21:11.874-07:00Susan: You're quite welcome. I used to kind of...Susan: You're quite welcome. I used to kind of "pooh pooh" the idea that "indie" publishing is a fad, but this is the kind of thing that can make it into one.<br /><br />Jess: Thanks!<br /><br />Ella: I don't think the critique sandwich is best for a review. That's something that's meant specifically for an author. A review is aimed toward the buying public, and they don't need that kind of treatment. Basically, there is not always a positive note to end on.<br /><br />Eve: See, and that's my point: right now, too many people have the attitude that "indie" is equivalent to bad which I think is bolstered by the fact that so many "indies" run around trying to convince people of how good it is without the merit to back it up. In truth, "indie" is no more good or bad than anything else, but there aren't a lot of people willing to be honest about the market, right now.<br /><br />Susanne: That's certainly a valid way to do it. I mean, it's all sharing thoughts, but there are certainly different ways to come at it.<br /><br />Jemi: As I've said, I can understand that view point. It's a whole different game when you also want to eventually get a book out there.<br /><br />D.G.: Well, see, that thing with people in groups giving each others' books good reviews is a huge problem, and I actually see it all the time. It's one of the things that makes it difficult for a consumer to come in and know what to buy. -If- a consumer buys a book like that and finds it bad, the consumer assumes they're all bad. That, in turn, is bad for me, which is why I think honest reviews are important. Good or bad.<br /><br />Lee: Exactly, the review isn't about the author at all or, even, intended for the author as such. We need a market place where the consumer can come in and get reliable data with which to make a decision.<br /><br />Maurice: I'm assuming you mean traditional publishing, and I'm not sure that it keeps the trash off the shelves. In fact, I know it doesn't. Just last year, I started reading a series by a guy that was one of my favorite authors when I was younger. It was quite clear that the series I started (and didn't finish) got published on the strength of the author's name, not because it should have been on the shelves.<br /><br />Jericha: Well, I feel rather strongly about it. The fight to get (legitimate) reviews is ridiculous, and I find it discouraging when I see a work out there with 30 or 40 5-star ratings that I know aren't "real" reviews, so I've put a lot of thought into all of this. If we want "indie" publishing to survive, we have to make it survive, and we can't do that by "cheating" the system or expect people to buy our work just because we "wrote a book."<br />And thank you :)Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-91467700610179475212012-07-12T10:51:36.768-07:002012-07-12T10:51:36.768-07:00Wohoo! I love it when people go straight to the po...Wohoo! I love it when people go straight to the point and tell it like it is. great post!<br />Nutschell<br />www.thewritingnut.comnutschellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10967710710805174781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-58064970776702372952012-07-12T09:39:48.286-07:002012-07-12T09:39:48.286-07:00Super well-thought-out, Andrew. (Here's my sur...Super well-thought-out, Andrew. (Here's my surprised face: you write better about this issue than almost anyone.) Even though I've weighed in on a few conversations you've hosted on this topic already, I think I've gained some new thoughts here:<br /><br />1) I don't think there's a conflict of interest when writers review. As long as the position of the person reviewing is clear, I think authors have a lot of insight into what makes a book work that someone who only works as a critic simply can't have - not to mention they have an appreciation for the WORK that goes into it. That won't always make an author-penned review nicer, but it does mean sometimes being able to see what a writer was trying to do where a critic might miss it. (I think, anyway.)<br /><br />2. For me, the point in giving a 1- or 2-star rating to a book is to tell others to stay away and not waste their time and money. Coming across a published book, in any format, that genuinely sucks is a very disappointing experience, and I want to be able to explain thoughtfully why I think others should avoid it until the author makes it better. I DON'T just want to say IT STINKS; I want to say something (especially with a self-pubbed book) that gives the author a chance to come back to it and fix some of whatever it was I found unreadable. That said, I would only do that on a venue like Goodreads or Amazon, where the book is actually in a marketplace already; I would never do it with an ARC copy, or one given to me especially for review (that would result in a private email expressing my opinion). It would only happen with a book I picked up and paid for, where I felt like I had been somehow tricked into reading trash. <br /><br />3. Even if somebody LOVES my book, I want to know what didn't work for them - even if it's just a clunky sentence. I won't become a better writer unless I get honest, constructive critique. If I put out a book and get a bunch of 3-star reviews with intelligent, nuanced feedback, my next book is going to be way stronger than if I put out a book that gets lots of 4s and 5s with "yay I loved it!" all over it. I will always stand by the idea that constructively critical reviews help me as an author. Which is why I appreciate Andrew so much.jerichashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313710420089008960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-53298462454760654532012-07-12T09:17:26.786-07:002012-07-12T09:17:26.786-07:00Thanks for the guest post Arlee. Andy, publishing ...Thanks for the guest post Arlee. Andy, publishing is hard, but at least it keeps the trash off the shelves.Maurice Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15338165486757095191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-67428097352535524322012-07-12T08:56:21.293-07:002012-07-12T08:56:21.293-07:00The intent of a review is of key importance here. ...The intent of a review is of key importance here. The review shouldn't be directed toward the author as much as the consumer who will ultimately be investing time and probably money in the book.<br /><br />The review should be a service to aid the consumer in making a decision about a book. If the review is not honest then the reviewer is perpetrating a fraud about the consumer. Since the review is opinion the reader of that review also has the responsibility of discernment. <br /><br />It's like a restaurant, a movie, a store, or whatever. The potential customer should be warned prior to investing in an experience if a reviewer suspects the customer might be disappointed. <br /><br />The review should never be used to disparage or maliciously attack, but it should be back up by facts and honest assessment.<br /><br />Pre-publication critique should be the author's tool to avoid the discomfort of a negative review, but the author should use every bad review as an educational experience and take them for what they are.<br /><br />LeeArlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-92052418487708409382012-07-12T08:21:17.329-07:002012-07-12T08:21:17.329-07:00I disagree, with respect of course, but any review...I disagree, with respect of course, but any review is subjective.<br /><br />I review books I like and recommend on my own blogsite, I don't review books I don't like. I review as a feature. Why waste a reader's time telling him about a bad book? I don't frequent the review sites. I don't see the value. If I frequent a scifi site, I'll listen to that author or blogger before any review site.<br /><br />The only conflict I have seen in book reviewing is when a group of like writers all review each other's books on a group site. Is anyone in that group likely to say another writer in the group is less than? I've yet to see it.<br /><br />Is it difficult to review another writer's book? I try to look for the positives that do exist,as each book I choose has already gone through one winnowing process - the purchase or decision to read it. <br /><br />If honesty is your policy, Andrew, then that's fine, but you should also see the value in not giving a bad book any more publicity. In a social media climate, a bad book review can cause swarming and other 'less-than' practices to be displayed.<br /><br />Let's not get our shorts in a knot over another writer's dilemma.D.G. Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213237734772028645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-58537956849464822082012-07-12T06:05:54.445-07:002012-07-12T06:05:54.445-07:00You make some great points! However, I'm one o...You make some great points! However, I'm one of 'those' reviewers :) I only discuss and review books I've enjoyed. I won't even put a book on my 'currently reading' shelf on Goodreads until I know I'll be able to say good things about it. If I considered myself a book reviewer rather than an aspiring author I might do it differently, but I doubt I'll be making changes anytime soon :)Jemi Fraserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02214408467456320167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-54849779734151661562012-07-12T02:42:05.263-07:002012-07-12T02:42:05.263-07:00This is always an interesting topic. I especially...This is always an interesting topic. I especially enjoyed reading all the different comments. I do post reviews on my blog, but I've started to change that to sharing my thoughts on a book, because that is more of what it is for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-89288733647254566122012-07-12T01:25:57.287-07:002012-07-12T01:25:57.287-07:00I've never 'reviewed' anything for any...I've never 'reviewed' anything for anyone...books, restaurants, movies or music...I can tell if something's poorly written, as opposed to something I just don't care for, myself...at this point I pretty much know what I like to read...I think the 'Indie Scene' probably is full of a lot of crap...just like the Indie Scenes in theater and film...'Indie Scene',doesn't automatically mean 'good'...normally it's crap... To tell the honest truth, if I know something is 'Indie', I'm less likely to read it because I assume it won't be that good...but...I will never 'review' it, because...why would I? It's none of my business what someone else wants to read.<br />Good topic!E. M. Prokophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12395951217528199963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-10131528337272059892012-07-11T22:18:44.112-07:002012-07-11T22:18:44.112-07:00Hi Lee and Andrew!
Great post, honesty is the best...Hi Lee and Andrew!<br />Great post, honesty is the best policy. I do think the critique sandwich is best. A compliment, something you liked, then some honesty,(be diplomatic and then the sum up,always end on a positive note~<br /><br />I do like your insight on this matter!<br />Thank you for saying it, as it should be ;DEllahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06070952447277684613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-2156616636318821762012-07-11T19:59:23.698-07:002012-07-11T19:59:23.698-07:00Great/thoughtful post. Tough topic, with quite a b...Great/thoughtful post. Tough topic, with quite a bit of passion behind the comments on both sides. Good stuff.Jesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121018905141253640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-74756849628913634332012-07-11T18:14:11.912-07:002012-07-11T18:14:11.912-07:00This was an honest, straight-forward view of a gro...This was an honest, straight-forward view of a growing problem on indie-publishing. The lack of quality really damages the reputation of all on-line books. Thanks, Andrew, for such a timely piece.<br />And, of course, thanks to Arlee as well.Susan Kanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09834094675218254410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-49426895830047711222012-07-11T14:56:53.092-07:002012-07-11T14:56:53.092-07:00wtmwop: Balance can be difficult, that's for s...wtmwop: Balance can be difficult, that's for sure.<br /><br />Carol: Well, to clarify this somewhat, I'm not favor of searching out books to give bad reviews to. So to speak. It's no search and destroy thing. But, when reviews are being requested by an author, they should be requesting and expecting honest reviews, not "nice" reviews.<br /><br />Nicole: I certainly believe in explaining what particular things caused me not to like something. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's more important to say why.<br /><br />Jamie: You can give a bad review without being an ass, although I'm not sure if the author on the receiving end ever believes that. I'll just say that I've been called an ass without that ever being my intent.<br />On the other hand, I've seen plenty of people that just set out to be an ass.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-9665739838739881272012-07-11T14:41:43.030-07:002012-07-11T14:41:43.030-07:00Honesty is always best, because you can give a bad...Honesty is always best, because you can give a bad review without being an ass. I try to make sure that all my reviews have a bit of both in them. If I really dont like a book, I mention something that the author does well, and vice versa. It helps keep things balanced.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02548680159204361401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-80961197576117849232012-07-11T13:32:18.668-07:002012-07-11T13:32:18.668-07:00Andrew has a point in what he says about there bei...Andrew has a point in what he says about there being a big difference between reviews and authors writing about books that they love. Readers expect an objective approach with the former while the latter allows them to weigh the texts' against their own preferences, likes, dislikes, etc. with regards to books.<br /><br />I think that there is a greater responsibility for authors to work toward upholding the credibility of the independent publishing industry at-large versus going for the short-term gain approach of writing "nice" reviews for everything, regardless of whether they read them or not and regardless of whether or not they even liked them at all. <br /><br />There is a way to write a bad review without making it a BAD review...it's all about being constructive without being insulting or mean or whatever. <br /><br />Since I don't read fiction much anyway, reviews won't sway me in either direction no matter if they are good or bad. It's all about whether the story is of interest to me or not and then it becomes about who wrote it and then maybe I'll check out some reviews. I read three books in the last month or so and none of them were fictional novels, so I guess, what I think about this topic doesn't particularly matter, lol.<br /><br />Still, I think that one of the best ways for independent publishers to put themselves and their books in a good position for exposure and sales, etc. is so seek reviews from people who have already established some form of credibility in whatever market the book is being released in. Reviews from a credible source goes a long way, even if it's just one review. <br /><br />Some of the best "Bad" reviews cover both good and not-so-good aspects of a work, or at the very least, they explain in detail why the author didn't like it, instead of just bashing it altogether.Nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08965945636486620938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-49410634901352281602012-07-11T13:05:23.859-07:002012-07-11T13:05:23.859-07:00I have done a few reviews, but not many. And none ...I have done a few reviews, but not many. And none on my blog. I'm not a reviewer. The few I've done, I've liked the books. I may never do another. If I don't like the book, I keep my mouth shut. I was raised in Texas where the rule in my house was if I couldn't say anything nice, I better keep my mouth shut. Critiques and beta reads, however, are not included in that rule. Neither are they for public consumption - only to help the author improve.Carol Kilgorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03745686632918324803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-47259588931226650512012-07-11T12:46:59.203-07:002012-07-11T12:46:59.203-07:00I have never reviewed a book for anyone so don'...I have never reviewed a book for anyone so don't know how I'd feel whether to be honest if the book was not that good. I hope I could strike an equal librium.<br /><br />Yvonne.RHYTHM AND RHYMEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11386975261804630799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-149224757183756660.post-4648375245865384842012-07-11T12:44:10.906-07:002012-07-11T12:44:10.906-07:00Stephen: It is a tightrope, but it's one I thi...Stephen: It is a tightrope, but it's one I think is worth walking. It's certainly not easy or safe, but I do think there are rewards for it if one is prepared to endure it. At least, I hope there are.<br />heh<br /><br />Charlie: I think you're taking the title out of context.<br /><br />Suze: I agree with a 3-star review when it's deserved. 3-star, to me, is readable or average. <br /><br />Lynn: I never feel bad about it with movies.<br /><br />LD: I think the real work is to transcend the idea that if you are giving an honest, objective review to something that's less than good that you are being "mean." That is not being mean, in actuality. It is being truthful and honest. Being mean is calling something bad or name-calling when it's undeserved or making derogatory comments about the author based on the writing.<br /><br />Robin: I think the star bestowing, the rating, is personal. That's how much you liked it. A review is separate and different from a rating, though.<br /><br />Lee: Thanks, Lee. I've got say, though, I'm feeling the heat from certain areas.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.com